Need to find a sutta: because there is diligent effort, humans are able to reach Nirvana

Q & A
1

Seeking a sutta. In that sutta, the Buddha presents a false notion held by some people regarding lifetimes of reincarnation, which is that after living and dying through enough lifetimes, a person will automatically attain enlightenment and liberation.
And that sutta is accompanied by a precise number regarding the count of reincarnations. However, I have also forgotten that number as well.

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2

It’s in DN2:19.1 and many other suttas, it’s the view held by one of the ford makers of the time.

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3

This is extractly what I need. Thanks!

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4

I need to find another scripture as well. I don’t remember the exact wording. The gist of it is: because there is diligent effort, humans are able to reach Nirvana. It is similar to the concept of free will.

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5

Unfortunately, I don’t know. I think I read it before but I cannot recall. I’m sure that someone else more knowledgeable will be able to answer.

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6

I remember that it is also in the same sutta as the text you just quoted above, but not DN2, if I’m not wrong.

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7

Are you thinking of

And how is exertion and striving fruitful? It’s when a mendicant doesn’t bring suffering upon themselves; and they don’t forsake legitimate pleasure, but they’re not besotted with that pleasure. They understand: ‘When I actively strive I become dispassionate towards this source of suffering. But when I develop equanimity I become dispassionate towards this other source of suffering.’ So they either actively strive or develop equanimity as appropriate. Through active striving they become dispassionate towards that specific source of suffering, and so that suffering is worn away. Through developing equanimity they become dispassionate towards that other source of suffering, and so that suffering is worn away.

From MN101?

BTW, it’s better to ask separate questions rather than just chain new ones. I modified your subject to perhaps draw more attention. And since you have asked a new question you might want to mark the thread “unanswered”, otherwise everyone who tries to answer will get a warning that the topic has been solved.

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8

There is also sn43.6.

You might try looking under the various effort/striving entries in the CIPS

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9

I don’t think it is MN101, because it doesn’t have the passage talking about 84 million great eons of reincarnation like the DN2 excerpt above.

10

Something in similar vein can be found in MN70:27.5

‘Gladly, let only skin, sinews, and bones remain! Let the flesh and blood waste away in my body! I will not relax my energy until I have achieved what is possible by human strength, energy, and vigor.’ 

For a faithful disciple who is practicing to fathom the Teacher’s instructions, one of two results can be expected: enlightenment in this very life, or if there’s something left over, non-return.”

But there is no mention of other ford makers in that sutta.

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11

Probably not exactly what you’re looking for, but AN 2.19 has the same theme—Venerable Thanissaro’s translation:

“Abandon what is unskillful, monks. It is possible to abandon what is unskillful. If it were not possible to abandon what is unskillful, I would not say to you, ‘Abandon what is unskillful.’ But because it is possible to abandon what is unskillful, I say to you, ‘Abandon what is unskillful.’ If this abandoning of what is unskillful were conducive to harm and pain, I would not say to you, ‘Abandon what is unskillful.’ But because this abandoning of what is unskillful is conducive to benefit and pleasure, I say to you, ‘Abandon what is unskillful.’

“Develop what is skillful, monks. It is possible to develop what is skillful. If it were not possible to develop what is skillful, I would not say to you, ‘Develop what is skillful.’ But because it is possible to develop what is skillful, I say to you, ‘Develop what is skillful.’ If this development of what is skillful were conducive to harm and pain, I would not say to you, ‘Develop what is skillful.’ But because this development of what is skillful is conducive to benefit and pleasure, I say to you, ‘Develop what is skillful.’”

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12

Yes, that’s one of the sutta that came to my mind, but it doesn’t mention anything about the potential fruit in this life.

13

Yeah, right. It has the same theme!

14

Oh, I thought you were asking for a totally different sutta. Very sorry.

So you are looking for one sutta that has both things?

You can use this search to find other suttas with the same passage as DN2. There are 4 others:
https://suttacentral.net/search?query=there%20is%20no%20cause%20or%20reason%20for%20the%20corruption

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15

Nice tool, thanks!
I will read all results to find that sutta :smiley:

16

I can’t guarantee it is there, but if not I can add it once you do find it.

Also, note that on desktop you can hover over a citation to get the SuttaCentral blurb as a popup. On mobile you can swipe the citation to get the blurb. That might save you a little time.

17

Maybe another one is Sandakasutta MN76?