SuttaCentral
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Hi there, I have an interesting question (I hope) that appeared after I read the Akusalamūlasutta (AN.3.69:9.1). That is, how can you develop understanding?
Letās say somebody said something really crazy and born out of hatred, greed, and delusion.
How can one develop understanding in such situations?
Your answers are truly appreciated.
This is one of my favourite suttas!
One way is through curiosity. We are all conditioned beings, getting curious about the conditions which lead to our own or others bad behaviour leads to understanding. If it is someone elseās bad behaviour we can ask them āwhen you said x what did you mean?ā, ādid you really mean to say xxx?ā or āwhen you did x why did you do it?ā. Maybe itās easy enough to know. They might have been tired after a busy week at work or spending time with their own difficult people. When we see the conditions that lead to choices, it can be easier to let go and learn.
When reading the Early Buddhist Texts, the content seems surprisingly abstract. Unlike modern books or even some later religious texts, the EBTs seem heavily reliant on numbered lists, repetitive formulas, and very technical definitions, many Suttas focus on breaking down experience into aggregations (khandhas), sense bases (ayatanas), and elements (dhatus).
Why did the Buddha or the early compilers choose to frame the human experience through such an abstract, almost scientific lens? Is this level of deconstruction necessary for the goal of liberation, or is some of this a result of how the texts were translated or preserved?
Hereās how I would think of itā¦ suppose there is a early 20th century university library with a chemistry lab attached to it. Some one could rightly say, āLook at this place! Itās dominated by these shelves and card catalogues, piles of dictionaries, and all this boring glass equipment in these sterile cabinets!ā Their experience would be absolutely valid. But add in a skilled librarian or chemistry instructor and the whole universe is there for the taking. And in fact, on those shelves are books with really accessible information, they just arenāt obvious at first glance.
So Iād say the fact that we are all still here able to read and talk about the suttas could indicate that the way they were organized and presented shows that they were packaged up appropriately. We just either need some help to make use of it or the patience to learn how ourselves.
The ability to analyze the human experience is not necessary for the person who first walks into the chemistry lab. But once they have been there a while and are dedicated to truly understanding things it becomes essential. If you are grieving the loss of a loved-one, being told that they were just a collection of the four great elements isnāt likely to help.
For centuries most people would have only experienced the suttas through a human mediator. The ability to dig into the entire canon on our own it a very new thing. Even within some of our own lifetimes.
Not sure if all that helps. You certainly arenāt alone in your experience. This is why I like to recommend anthologies like those by Ajahn Thanissaro as a way to quickly surface texts that quickly go to our lived experiences.
My first post here. I have practiced jhanas under a lay teacher for a while. I have also learnt from different traditions
In the Pali Canon, the Buddha is referred to as a Bodhisattva. So how does this notion differ from the Mahayana bodhisattva ideal in terms of motivation, practices, and spiritual goals? Was the Buddha of the Pali Canon practicing already for the happiness of all living beings?
Welcome to the forum!
This is actually a really popular topic. Here are some past discussions you could look at while waiting for someone to give you an answer here:
Maybe you have already seen them. The search feature (at the top of this site) is pretty good if you have a keyword to search for.
Thanks for encouraging questions from us newcomers. See below for 5 questions Iāve been pondering.
1st Question
A big part of Sutta central and the discourse here is spending time reading the Suttas. As such, how does one read the Suttas and ensure that you understand them correctly.
Given the Suttas arenāt often clear and are prone to misunderstanding a whole range of modern and ancient commentaries have cropped up and expert scholars/practitioners to this day continue debate various interpretations. Layer in now an entirely new method of evaluation being comparative studies and all of a sudden the task of being able to as accurately understand the word of the Buddha becomes immense.
Bhikku Analayo in the Singless and Deathless references Bhikku Bodhi in the conclusion with the following statement: āNot only are the texts themselves composed in a clipped laconic style that mocks our thirst for conceptual completeness, but their meaning often seems to rest upon a deep underlying groundwork of interconnected ideas that is nowhere stated baldly in a way that might guide interpretation. Instead of resorting to direct expression, the nikÄyas embed the basic principles of doctrine in a multitude of short, often elusive discourses that draw upon and allude to the underlying system without spelling it out. To determine the principles one has to extract them piecemeal, by considering in juxtaposition a wide assortment of texts. The situation that emerges from the above assessment makes it perhaps more understandable why the early Buddhist perspective on the construction of experience has up to now not received as much attention as I believe it deserves.ā
It would seem that in order for one to ensure they are interpreting the Suttas correctly a deep amount of knowledge and expertise would be required.
How would a lay practitioner reading on their own acquire this skill.
2nd Question
This builds on my first which is the value of studying Pali.
Given the complexity required to even understand the Suttas in our native language it would seem adding another layer of learning Pali and ensuring a correct understanding would add a whole other dimension of difficulty. As with the Suttas themselves there are numerous examples of expert scholars disagreeing on the meaning of various Pali words. If thatās the case what chance does a hobbyist stand.
3rd Question
If weāve been stuck in a samsaric existence from a beginningless cycle of Aeons. Over an infinite amount of time as beings come in contact with the Dhamma and become enlightened wouldnāt the number of life streams trapped in Samsara eventually become zero?
4th Question
My fourth question has to do with Kamma. This is more of an observation I guess than a question, but it seems to me that the fundamental set up of Kamma is a bit unjust.
In the field of judgment and decision making thereās a concept known as kind and wicked learning environments. With kind environments providing immediate clear feedback based on a stable rules based process which allows for someone to learn fast. Alternatively a wicked learning environment has delayed feedback and noisy signal quality that creates a much slower learning environment. To me it seems as if Kamma, due to memory loss at the end of one life going into a new life at, is a wicked learning environment.
The way someone learns not to touch a hot stove is by immediate feedback. If certain results of a lifetime arenāt seen until another lifetime the ability to learn from that experience is drastically diminished. If someone born in a hell realm or difficult life circumstances had the ability to directly recall a previous lifetimes actions that lead to this then they would have a much stronger chance of immediately correcting their actions. However, as it stands thatās not the case.
I know Buddhism often sets aside the unknowables but doesnāt this seem fundamentally unfair.
5th Question
I posted this in the EBT vs Theravada checklist post and am cross posting this here in case someone wants to tackle it on this post.
To the extent someone is practicing according to a traditional Theravada style vs EBTs style do these differences highlighted lead to materially different outcomes?
IE does practicing in a Theravada path with its corresponding beliefs that differ from the EBTs impact right view? Or as long as 4NT, N8FP, DO, Kamma are understood at a macro level these finer details donāt make that much of a difference in progressing on the path and attaining.
To be clear, Iām a big fan of the EBTs and have consumed a large amount of Bhikku Analayoās books and articles as well as works / talks by Bhante Sujato and Ajahn Brahmali, but Iām wondering while getting as close to the word of the Buddha that we can is great does it lead to meaningfully different outcomes if someone were to study traditional Theravada vs EBTs.
Additionally, considering the EBTs are a relatively recent phenomenon would the implications be then that Theravada practitioners for centuries have been practicing incorrectly?
Hello there!
It is a journey.
Personally, Iām studying Buddhism for some, 15 years? I can safely say, Iāve just begun to scratch the surface. Some people here are studying for 20, 30 years, and every day our teachers even learn something new.
Thereās something humbling about that. Excuse my analogy, but it isnāt like a Hamburger recipe where you can (or are supposed to) learn in a minute, make it in an hour. Itāll take a lifetime, and probably a few more. 
The process is what counts - starting on a skillful journey, improving day by day, asking questions, being patient. The magic formula is that thereās no other magic formula!
Again, you donāt need to master the grammar in a day to see improvements in your life.
I would say, a cursory familiarity with some of the key aspects and their linguistics are useful, but all in all, we have fantastic translations.
Itāll get to a point of deep study before you can notice and investigate the differences between different translations. I wonāt say theyāre not substantial, but still, most of the translations still converge nicely on the beginning of the path where it count the most, that is, ethical living.
I think most people would benefit far better from simple studies and practice of ethics, before even caring about the end of the path. Donāt get me wrong, itās good to have a bit of knowledge, but in my experience, even in online discussion, itās usually not knowledge thatās lacking, but proper conduct.
Perhaps. I really have no idea. Sounds like a good thing, though!
I mean, Buddha doesnāt make the Karma, he just explains it. And I donāt think Buddha ever claims life is fair, either. There are things that happen outside of your Karma, thatās just the way it is.
Nobody said Samsaric experience was just or perfect. On the contrary, if it was just and perfect, we wouldnāt seek a way out, would we now?
Maybe. Again, it depends on who you ask that question.
Itās hard to speak declaratively. These forums are EBT focused, so there is bound to be a certain bias.
There are also Classically TheravÄdin folk in here. Or, there are MahÄyÄna / Zen students like me! We all find something in common in EBTs.
I donāt want to dismiss your questions, because they are the right questions, and some folk might be more comfortable answering more declaratively. However, I hope I make my case that you donāt have to have an answer right away, and that you should investigate these differences and find out for yourself.
Welcome to the forums.
These are great questions and weāre happy to see that youāve jumped right in!
There is a great deal of diversity of subjects to answer in one thread, so the conversation may get very disjointed and hard to follow. Iāll make the suggestion to create a topic for each question in whichever category fits best, i.e. Discussion or Q&A. That way there will be a much better continuity of conversation on each individual subject. You can do this yourself or, f youād like us to do that for you, weāll be happy to.
Welcome @nebularising! These are good questions and worth having their own posts. Iāll hold off on answering #1 in the hopes you make a new thread out of it.
EDIT:
Here are the new threads:
Thanks Adutiya! Happy to break these out into separate topics and will post them in the appropriate forums.
Thanks Snowbird! Will break these out now.
Much appreciated Dogen for these responses.
Makes sense that itās an ever evolving process of study as you say, and a better focus for a lot of people is to ensure they get the foundation of ethics down pat.
Agreed that the Buddha never said life was fair. Just an observation I had about the environment with which we have to learn from our Kamma.
Oh interesting to see a Mahayana/Zen person here as would have thought the EBT lense would could rub Mahayana practitioners the wrong way.
Per the suggestions of the others Iām going to break that questions out into separate posts.
I was reading the Äkankheyyasutta MN6. One Might Wish, when I came across this passage.
āA mendicant might wish: āWhen deceased family and relatives who have passed away recollect me with a confident mind, may this be very fruitful and beneficial for them.ā So let them fulfill their precepts ā¦ā
ā Bhikkhu Sujato, 2018
I was having a conversation with another person the other day regarding the Dalai Lama whether or not he would reincarnate as male or female. Buddha speaks about rebirth in many of his discourses. These terms are often times used interchangeably in everyday language. My understanding of reincarnation is when a person passes from this life they reappear as themselves in another human form and can recall past lives. Rebirth, as I understand it is a karmic continuation of consciousness based on past karmic activities that determines the form. The passage above would appear to me to be a teaching of reincarnation. Secondly, who is the beneficiary, the deceased or the mendicant or both? And thirdly, almost every time I read that passage, I come up with a different understanding.
Hi Wayne!, Thanks for posting today! Here are a few points that might help you. Others may answer some of the other questions.
Here is a talk by Ajahn Bramali on this very sutta:
It helps putting it into perspective.
4 posts were split to a new topic: Anything positive to say about AI