Non verbal transmission of Dhamma


I have found that just being around certain people for a while is very helpful - it’s as if something “rubs off”. :blush:

I think chapters 5 and 6 of the Dhammapada are relevant here - associating with the wise, rather than with fools.


Agreed. We are driven by greed, hatred and delusion. The Buddha expected his monks to remember the suttas so that they would benefit from that knowledge.


A key on the wall doesn’t open the lock.


I moved this post to dhammawheel personal experiences dept as maybe it is not appropriate for this forum (I mean personal experiences which I am interested in).
If somebody is interested in talking about other traditions/experiences please PM me.

Much metta


Yes, but they use as few as possible and they don’t just hand you the “keys to the kingdom” so to speak. If you’re trying to point out a contradiction between Zen’s modus operandi and its tools, I don’t think there is one. The koans and even a teisho from a teacher are nothing more than a “finger pointing at the moon” and little else - they are not the moon itself. Words are necessary to a point - where we get in trouble is when we attach too much importance to the words rather than the investigation of what they’re getting at.


And the opposite is also true. My study of Zen derailed without the words. It was ineffective.


I wonder if ‘koans’ are indeed like the ‘finger pointing towards the moon’ :first_quarter_moon: while EBTs are like ‘how to build your moon rocket’ :rocket: ?


Honestly I don’t find it entirely necessary to debate sectarian differences. As one very famous teacher said, investigate the dharma/dharma, keep what works and discard what doesn’t. There are many paths to the top of the mountain; I think the various traditions aren’t better or worse than each other (because isn’t that just more dualistic thinking?) but simply more suitable to different individual ways of thinking and feeling. Zen resonates with me the best, Thai Forest next, and I have virtually no taste for the Vajryana traditions. But that’s just me.