Note on the "Gods of the Cool Thunderclouds" aka "The Cool Cloud Devas"

[Dan]

SN 32.53 and previously discussed Valāhakā Devā, who are deities of the weather controlling the clouds

I will just post the whole sutta here its really short

Sāvatthinidānaṁ.

Seated to one side, that mendicant said to the Buddha:
Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho so bhikkhu bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Sir, what is the cause, what is the reason why sometimes it becomes cool?”
“ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo, yenekadā sītaṁ hotī”ti?

“Mendicant, there are what are called gods of the cool thunderclouds.
“Santi, bhikkhu, sītavalāhakā nāma devā.
Sometimes they think:
Tesaṁ yadā evaṁ hoti:
‘Why don’t we revel in our own kind of enjoyment?’ Then, in accordance with their wish, it becomes cool.
‘yannūna mayaṁ sakāya ratiyā vaseyyāmā’ti, tesaṁ taṁ cetopaṇidhimanvāya sītaṁ hoti. Variant: ratiyā vaseyyāmā’ti → rameyyāmāti (bj, sya-all, km, pts1ed)
This is the cause, this is the reason why sometimes it becomes cool.”

so that thread of course discusses the obvious like “this betrays naturalistic understanding, physics”.

July 2020 after some construction tasks someone working with said to me “I don’t believe the buddha said that” and they thought maybe latter addition.

I was like surprised because it seemed straight forward and coherent with what buddha said in MN1. Where when I’ve read that interpreted the delight/relishing akin to the “ah! what was that” like a kind of ignorance that wants to do with, etc. that takes back to like senses from samatha meditation

Simularly in November 2022 this topic of the “weird suttas” about the cloud devas came up chatting to someone “oh I think it’s like MN1 - the delight - world arises” and sort of simular reaction, except this person understood what I meant

Anyway, just wanted to leave this note here incase if there’s ways it’s total misinterpretation. I don’t know pali or anything it just seemed seems coherent with how interpreting or understanding rest of suttas.

With metta

[AdrianMagno]

Dan first of all, it’s nice to hear from you, glad to know you are well.

I’m with you on this one buddy, the Buddha spoke a lot about devas, and the 4th anusati is recollection of the devas so I think the devas are very relevant.

I think it’s a nice practice to recollect the devas to arouse the faith faculty.

As it happens, I’ve got a deva story to tell

Back in 2018, I did the Great Ocean walk. The last campsite before you walk to the 12 Apostles is called ‘Devil’s kitchen’. Which to be honest, I remember thinking to myself, ‘why did they have to name this campsite devil’s kitchen?’.

Anyway, the faithful night came and I found myself camping all alone at Devil’s kitchen. To add to my consternation regarding this campsite, it just so happened it was a new moon, and it was cloudy as well, so no light from the moon or the stars, pitch black.

As it happens, around 1 or 2 am, my bladder ‘told me’ that I had to trek to the bush toilet, which is probably a good 200 meter walk from where I pitched my tent.

So I put my head torch on, and summon all my courage, and unzip my tent fly and walk out into the inky black of the night and start walking over to the toilet with possibly the best view.

So I’m walking with my head down, torch light shining the path, and out of the corner of my eye, I see this being, who was giving off a kind of glow/aura, and I looked up and turn my head towards it, and it quickly hid behind a tree (it reminded of when you would play hide and seek and someone hides behind an object).

At this point, my heart is pounding quite hard and I contemplated walking back to my tent thinking ‘holy crap, what was that?’. I of course couldn’t because my bladder was near bursting, so I continued my walk towards the toilet.

I emptied my bladder and on the way back to the tent, I just kept my head down and I was thinking thoughts such as ‘This is my last night on this walk, and I don’t mean anyone any harm, please allow me a safe night, and I will leave this campsite in peace tomorrow morning.”

I get back to my tent, zip up in my sleeping bag, and all my hearing is amped up to the max, and every little sound causes my heart to nearly burst out of my chest cavity

Finally around 4am, I fell asleep. I woke up as soon as I hear the birds calling in the morning. I unzip the tent and walk over to the spot where I saw this being, and ofcourse, it was no where to be found.

I think at the time, I thought it was ghost, but later on that same year, I actually did see a ghost at one of the libraries (it’s an old heritage listed building) we were working at, and I remember it was transparent, not glowing like the being I saw that night on the walk.

Anyway, I was reading a sutta, and I read that stock phrase describing devas, ‘and the deva lit up the entire grove’ and it dawned on me that the being I saw could’ve been some sort of tree or earth deva.

So that’s my little deva story. I think it’s nice to consider that there are these beings out there who exist and I’d like to think they could help us out from time to time (and scare the crap out of us ) , so long as we do our best to keep our precepts.