Note on the "Gods of the Cool Thunderclouds" aka "The Cool Cloud Devas"

[Dan]

SN 32.53 and previously discussed Valāhakā Devā, who are deities of the weather controlling the clouds

I will just post the whole sutta here its really short

Sāvatthinidānaṁ.

Seated to one side, that mendicant said to the Buddha:
Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho so bhikkhu bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Sir, what is the cause, what is the reason why sometimes it becomes cool?”
“ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo, yenekadā sītaṁ hotī”ti?

“Mendicant, there are what are called gods of the cool thunderclouds.
“Santi, bhikkhu, sītavalāhakā nāma devā.
Sometimes they think:
Tesaṁ yadā evaṁ hoti:
‘Why don’t we revel in our own kind of enjoyment?’ Then, in accordance with their wish, it becomes cool.
‘yannūna mayaṁ sakāya ratiyā vaseyyāmā’ti, tesaṁ taṁ cetopaṇidhimanvāya sītaṁ hoti. Variant: ratiyā vaseyyāmā’ti → rameyyāmāti (bj, sya-all, km, pts1ed)
This is the cause, this is the reason why sometimes it becomes cool.”

so that thread of course discusses the obvious like “this betrays naturalistic understanding, physics”.

July 2020 after some construction tasks someone working with said to me “I don’t believe the buddha said that” and they thought maybe latter addition.

I was like surprised because it seemed straight forward and coherent with what buddha said in MN1. Where when I’ve read that interpreted the delight/relishing akin to the “ah! what was that” like a kind of ignorance that wants to do with, etc. that takes back to like senses from samatha meditation

Simularly in November 2022 this topic of the “weird suttas” about the cloud devas came up chatting to someone “oh I think it’s like MN1 - the delight - world arises” and sort of simular reaction, except this person understood what I meant

Anyway, just wanted to leave this note here incase if there’s ways it’s total misinterpretation. I don’t know pali or anything it just seemed seems coherent with how interpreting or understanding rest of suttas.

With metta

[AdrianMagno]

Dan first of all, it’s nice to hear from you, glad to know you are well.

I’m with you on this one buddy, the Buddha spoke a lot about devas, and the 4th anusati is recollection of the devas so I think the devas are very relevant.

I think it’s a nice practice to recollect the devas to arouse the faith faculty.

As it happens, I’ve got a deva story to tell

Back in 2018, I did the Great Ocean walk. The last campsite before you walk to the 12 Apostles is called ‘Devil’s kitchen’. Which to be honest, I remember thinking to myself, ‘why did they have to name this campsite devil’s kitchen?’.

Anyway, the faithful night came and I found myself camping all alone at Devil’s kitchen. To add to my consternation regarding this campsite, it just so happened it was a new moon, and it was cloudy as well, so no light from the moon or the stars, pitch black.

As it happens, around 1 or 2 am, my bladder ‘told me’ that I had to trek to the bush toilet, which is probably a good 200 meter walk from where I pitched my tent.

So I put my head torch on, and summon all my courage, and unzip my tent fly and walk out into the inky black of the night and start walking over to the toilet with possibly the best view.

So I’m walking with my head down, torch light shining the path, and out of the corner of my eye, I see this being, who was giving off a kind of glow/aura, and I looked up and turn my head towards it, and it quickly hid behind a tree (it reminded of when you would play hide and seek and someone hides behind an object).

At this point, my heart is pounding quite hard and I contemplated walking back to my tent thinking ‘holy crap, what was that?’. I of course couldn’t because my bladder was near bursting, so I continued my walk towards the toilet.

I emptied my bladder and on the way back to the tent, I just kept my head down and I was thinking thoughts such as ‘This is my last night on this walk, and I don’t mean anyone any harm, please allow me a safe night, and I will leave this campsite in peace tomorrow morning.”

I get back to my tent, zip up in my sleeping bag, and all my hearing is amped up to the max, and every little sound causes my heart to nearly burst out of my chest cavity

Finally around 4am, I fell asleep. I woke up as soon as I hear the birds calling in the morning. I unzip the tent and walk over to the spot where I saw this being, and ofcourse, it was no where to be found.

I think at the time, I thought it was ghost, but later on that same year, I actually did see a ghost at one of the libraries (it’s an old heritage listed building) we were working at, and I remember it was transparent, not glowing like the being I saw that night on the walk.

Anyway, I was reading a sutta, and I read that stock phrase describing devas, ‘and the deva lit up the entire grove’ and it dawned on me that the being I saw could’ve been some sort of tree or earth deva.

So that’s my little deva story. I think it’s nice to consider that there are these beings out there who exist and I’d like to think they could help us out from time to time (and scare the crap out of us ) , so long as we do our best to keep our precepts.

[Dan]

I thought of you and this experience you shared 2 nights ago because I was walking on road where forest either side on moonless night without illumination or torch and looked into the forest and taken a back with a little bit of fear as in the distance saw something never seen before glowing white light that was quite large like over a meter high and about that wide and some of the tree branches were scattering some of it so it was obviously behind those trees in this case I think it was some large fungi or something like that that was wrapped and growing out all around a tree trunk for a significant section of it and bioluminescent, and was faint physical light hitting the eyes , typical of what see with phosphores and in plankton and glow worms before

I don’t think it was a deva I wish it was but I don’t think I am really resonating on their wavelength at the moment

[AdrianMagno]

So, on that bush walk where I saw the lump of foam, I was at Govett’s leap, and I had to walk back across to Evan’s lookout along the cliff top, and I could see in the distance that there was rain coming. And I was thinking, “Oh well, if it’s going to rain, it’s going to rain! Not much I can do, the rain gods will do their thing regardless.”

I’d pretty much resigned to the fact that it will most likely rain on the walk back. And I started walking, and there were ‘spits’ of rain, but it didn’t actually rain while I was walking back. Got back to the carpark without getting rained on, but it clearly did dump where the car was.

So I guess, once you let go, and you just accept, a lot of the the times, it’s not as bad as it actually turns out to be.

[LucasOliveira]

I remembered this story by Ajahn Brahm..

A personal experience

I can tell you another story, a personal experience of mine in recent times. The Buddhist Society of Western Australia was getting ready for Vesak Celebrations one day.

Preparations got underway to hold open air celebrations in the night on Vesak day at a Central location in Perth. With just a few days to go we got to hear that the weather forecast was not good for Vesak day and night. It was forecasted that there would be severe storms.

As the days closed in the people who got together to organize the show were very doubtful of going ahead. Many requests came to me as president of the Buddhist Society of Perth to cancel it.

Continued faith

We had invited the Prime Minister to come as a special invitee amongst many other special guests. There were many calls asking me whether it would not be cancelled. But I continued to have faith.

Though people were surprised at my resolution, I decided to go ahead with the celebration despite the requests to cancel it from many quarters.

The day dawned with very cloudy skies. As the day advanced the conditions did not improve. It started to rain heavily and continued on to the evening. We heard over the news that the weather conditions were quite bad in surrounding areas as well.

It was worse than what the forecasts also predicted. However as night time advanced, and it was approaching to the time that we wanted to commence the celebrations the storm ceased and the sky cleared as if by magic. The full moon came out in all its splendour and illuminated the scene of the celebrations.

Vesak celebration

All those who gathered there that day had a most peaceful and serene Vesak celebration. Perfect weather prevailed until the celebrations were over and everyone went away to their homes. Thereafter the storm recommenced. And we got to know that even during the time of the celebration the storm had been raging in the surrounding areas.

I know that this miracle was aided with the help of the Devathas, who enabled us to have the Vesak Celebrations without any hindrance.

Therefore it is not a lie that Gods do exist, and they do assist the pure followers of the Dhamma.

There are gods, miracles do happen

[AdrianMagno]

Sadhu X 3 , yes I remember hearing this story a while ago, thanks for bringing it up, I think it was the 30th anniversary of the BSWA.

[Dan]

@AdrianMagno

I’d pretty much resigned to the fact that it will most likely rain on the walk back.

I like mudita, maybe like those higher beings are reveling in their own kind of delight, - what ever the weather conditions, there’s a higher being delight that gave birth to those conditions

(I wonder if this is the mudita extension, like the metta and the karuna extension “to all”)

[Dan]

Also AN 10.58 “reverend, all things have what as their root?”
Also SN 1.65
“What binds the world?
How does it travel about?
With the giving up of what
are all bonds severed?”

“Delight binds the world.
It travels about by means of thought.
With the giving up of craving
all bonds are severed.”