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Notes on the segmentation of Pali Vinaya with Brahmali's translation


#342

Pootle is supposed to have the Mahāsaṅgīti text, but occasionally things seem to have gone wrong in the process of transfer. This is probably what has happened here, and so the text on Pootle in incorrect.

Yes, please leave logic out of this. It might lead us astray … :upside_down_face:


#343

Kd 11 segment 253

There is no English translation for the sentence in this segment: “Saṃgho paṇḍukalohitakānaṃ bhikkhūnaṃ tajjanīyakammaṃ paṭippassambheti.”

The same is the case again in segments 259 and 265.


#344

Fixed! Thank you. :grinning:


#345

Cammakkhandhako niṭṭhito :grin:
I’ll pipe up when I’m ready for some Cullavagga!


#346

Wonderful! Marvellous!! Splendid!!! :grinning:

Please take your time. Whenever you are ready, I’ll be delighted to hear from you.


#347

The same happens again in the next chapter: segments 497, 503, 509.

And again in the next chapter: segments 647, 658.


#348

Thanks, @Sabbamitta. I have now fixed the first three. As for segments 647 and 658, the problem is that my translation leaves out quite a bit of the redundancy of the Pali. The translation that is now found in segment 648 is actually a translation for both segments 647 and 648. Ideally we would want to merge the two Pali segments into one, and then use the translation for segment 648 to cover the merged segment. So I would propose “needs work”, which I have now enabled. The same goes for segment 658 and 659. Maybe you should check my work to make sure I haven’t messed anything up! :grinning:


#349

Actually, that’s what I wasn’t quite sure about—was it left out by accident or on purpose.

In other instances where the translation abbreviates redundancy we just put the translation for both (or sometimes more) segments in the first one and left the Pali segmentation untouched. For example cases when the translation just says “Venerable X was behaving in this way”, instead of repeating the everything they did.


#350

Hokay. It is better that you do it the way you are used to so that everything is consistent. Can I leave it for you to fix up? In that way it is more likely to be done right. Thanks once again. :smile:


#351

Will do. :smiley:


Edit: I now saw that you added the translation in segments 253 etc. and 497 etc., and did the other change in 647 etc.

In 647 and 658 I now left the untranslated segment empty and put the “summary translation” in the following segment, since it isn’t actually a “summary” but corresponds exactly to what is found in this segment. :white_check_mark:


#352

This morning I installed a new font on my computer, source serif. Before I only had source sans which I had (and still have) also set as the default font of my browser. Now after installing source serif the font in Pootle is serif—which is in fact not so nice to work with. The setting of my browser is still correct, I have checked I don’t know how many times, but on the website it uses serif. Most strangely, on the Pali side it is sans serif, and on the English side it is serif. And it’s the same on Firefox and on Chrome.

Any idea what I can do? Bhante @sujato? (BTW, I am using Pootle with your nice Bilara skin.)

I don’t want to un-install the serif font, if that should be the only solution—I actually installed it because I want to use it… :grimacing:


#353

Not really; the translation is a combination of both segments. “Any monk who approves of doing a procedure of banishing them from Kīṭāgiri” is really a translation of the first segment, whereas “should remain silent” is part of the second segment. So it would be better to combine the Pali in one segment as well. “Needs work”?


#354

Bhante Sujato has mentioned several times that he doesn’t want to change the segmentation, except for punctuation (and probably for obvious errors). So the only option is to decide which is the better segment to add it to.


#355

But my main point was simply that “corresponds exactly to what is found in this segment” is not actually correct. It is a combination of both segments. Earlier on you said that “In other instances where the translation abbreviates redundancy we just put the translation for both (or sometimes more) segments in the first one”, and so I thought this would be appropriate also here, especially if we want consistency.

As for changing the Pali text, we will have to do it where the text is clearly corrupted, i.e., where the Pootle version is different from the Mahāsaṅgīti source text. I believe Bhante Sujato has agreed to this. And if we need to change the Pali text anyway, then perhaps it would be good to change these instances where Pali segments need to be merged to match the translation. Just a suggestion on my part. I am quite happy to go with what the supreme commander passes down from on high! I know my place, I think …


#356

Yes, that’s what I try to achieve. And if you say it does not represent exactly the second segment, then it should go with the first. Sorry if my last post sounded confusing.

:joy: :rofl:
Yes, let the supreme commander @sujato have the final word on this!


#357

If the Pali segmentation must be changed, so be it. I don’t want to change the segmentation of the published versions, but this is different.

In fact, when I did my translations, I marked places for correcting segments and went back and did them at the end, much as I plan to do with the Vinaya.

Once it is out there I would rather avoid changing segments where possible, as it breaks references. However in small cases I still do it. In fact, even this morning I changed some segment numbers to improve consistency, only a few references were affected.

As to changes in the Pali text, this is very bad! We should catch any instances where they occur, and before final publishing, I will get Blake to run a diff across the whole Vinaya corpus, comparing with the original files of the Mahasangiti edition, to make sure nothing has changed.


#358

Bhante @sujato, did you see my post above? If there’s some advice you could give me I’d very much appreciate. Thank you!


#359

The Bilara skin was in fact designed to do exactly what you’re seeing: use both serif and sans-serif (much as we do on the main site when displaying Pali and English). I like it that way, but if you want to change it, open up the code for the skin, search for serif, and take out any mention of “Source Serif Pro” and “serif”.


#360

Ah, thank you! I’ll play around with it and see what I like better. :blush:


#361

Did it—and it works! :tada: :laughing:

If anyone else wants to try: pootle-bilara-skin-sans.zip (3.0 KB)


The good thing: It shows line breaks very prominently, and this is just ideal for my current purposes. :ok_hand:

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