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Notes on the segmentation of Pali Vinaya with Brahmali's translation


#362

Added “needs work” in the relevant segments; in those that are empty I just wrote “(merge with seg. x)”, as I can’t mark empty segments.


How about segment 821: Is this a case for merging, or should it be translated? The same again for segment 828.

In segments 909/910 and 918/919 I think “(merge with seg. x)” is the right thing.


#363

Just mark needs work, put a note if you feel it needs it. these things will evolve over time for me as I work more closely with the texts, so for now just try your best.


#364

“x”?

The latter, which I have now fixed.

Yes! But again, why the “x”? Is it just a place-holder?


#365

You have to replace the “x” with the number of the relevant segment. I used it as a placeholder for a number. :laughing:


#366

Hokay, done! I have no doubt you know what your are doing, so please just go ahead and do this in future. :grinning:


#367

I actually wanted to use it as a placeholder here on D&D and didn’t notice that I also used it on Pootle… too much used to just copy & paste! :grin:


#368

Kd 11 chapter 7.4

In the list of good behavior the sequence seems to be different in Pali and translation.

Probably the best thing is I figure out which items belong to the respective Pali segments and insert the English where it fits to the Pali.

Just saw that the Pali abbreviates it all … there are just some dots … to represent all these items listed in the translation. :joy:


Segment 1674

“Well then, the Order should lift that procedure of ejection for not giving up a bad view.”—if I am not mistaken, this seems in fact to be what it says in the Pali, but I don’t quite understand. In another instance where the monks in question disrobed after the procedure done against them the Buddha says that the procedure should not be lifted, which seems to be the more logical approach to me. A mistake in the Pali text?


Kammakkhandhako niṭṭhito! :anjal:

Please send me another one as you see fit.


#369

Yes, this is strange. These sanghakammas can only be done against monastics, and it makes no sense to lift a procedure against someone who has just disrobed. Moreover, if he ever decides to become a monk again, he would have to behave properly so as to have this saṅghakamma lifted. It is only then that this procedure should be used. So I think you may right, it is quite possible that there is a mistake in the Pali. The problem is that the root text has the same mistake and so it’s not really possible to do anything about it, except inserting a note in the text perhaps. I shall consider doing just that.

On another issue, in segment 1701 the Pali and the translation read:

Pāpikāya diṭṭhiyā appaṭinissagge ukkhepanīyakamme
The group of forty-three on to be lifted in regard to a legal procedure

In segment 1702 they read:

paṭippassambhetabbatecattālīsakaṃ niṭṭhitaṃ.
of ejection for not giving up a bad view is finished.

The problem with this is that the translation in either phrase is a very poor match for the Pali. The overall sentence is a good match, but when you divide it is not. This is because the word order in English is almost the exact opposite of the order of the Pali. In these situation I would propose to merge both the Pali and the English. Are you able to mark these instances so that we may accomplish the merger at a later occasion?


#370

Will do. I was also thinking about the same. This construction appears in many chapters throughout this Khandhaka; everywhere else where I have been working so far it is all in one segment.


#371

And I have just seen that you have finished yet another khandhaka. You are some sort of unstoppable force! :grinning: The next khandhaka is on its way.


#372

Maybe this is the moment to come out with this: I am actually the Olympic champion in the discipline of copy & paste :medal_sports:—you should really see the muscles in some of my fingers! :muscle: :smile:


#373

It doesn’t matter how you do it, so long as you are the Olympic champion. Little tricks are good … You will be able to use your champion skills in the next chapter as well. It’s pretty repetitive, too.


#374

While going through the Khandhaka in order to mark the segments as discussed I just saw that in seg 784 there is the other occurrance on lifting or not a procedure done to a monk who has disrobed. And here it says in the Pali that the procedure should be lifted, and in your translation you say it should not, and added a note. Maybe you can refer to this in the later instance.


#375

Hope I found them all. :grin:


#376

Thank you. My note has reference to the PTS edition of the Pali Canon. I don’t access to that at the moment, but I will check it out as soon as I am back in Perth in a few days’ time. You are not merely an inputer (!), but also an excellent proofreader! :grinning:


#377

Thanks once again. I have now added a note.


#378

Help please! There is some trouble with Pootle again. I can’t enter text: The text entry field does simply not respond, despite refreshing the page several times (including hard refresh) and even rebooting my computer. So all I can do is … :beach_umbrella: :smile: … having a rest!

@sujato? @blake? Thank you for your help!


#379

Hahaha… :rofl: :joy:

Guess what happened: I had logged myself out without noticing it… and now Pootle is working again!!!

Holiday finished … :woman_technologist:


#380

Lists, followed by lists, followed by more lists … but eventually even the last list comes to an end! :scroll: :scroll: :scroll: :scroll::heart:

Pārivāsikakkhandhakaṃ niṭṭhitaṃ!

So I am ready for the next chapter. :anjal:


#381

Yes, it’s all pretty listy! I am glad you persevere in the face of all this listiness. And I am afraid the next chapter, too, is rather listful. The Samuccayakkhandhaka, the thirteenth, is on its way. May you not become listless!

Yes, I know … :zipper_mouth_face: