SuttaCentral
Venerables & Friends,
I would be grateful for your help in understanding the relationship between Jati & Gati.
In my initial research i found that gati is more associated with “destiny” whereas Jati with birth. If i may share the following sutta on gati:
How the two are interrelated? Usually, as long as we are not awakened, we say that we are destined to rebirth. Are there any other considerations that would enable better understanding?
Thank you
These are two completely different words.
One’s jāti is one’s going to (or arising in) a new place after death.
One’s gati is the place to which one goes.
Jātis are twofold: superior (ukkaṭṭha) and inferior (hīna).
Gatis are also twofold: good places (sugati) and bad places (duggati).
Birth in a sugati is an ukkaṭṭhā jāti.
Birth in a duggati is a hīnā jāti.
When the gatis are listed as fivefold, the first two are sugatis: the world of gods (devaloka) and the world of humans (manussaloka). The next three are duggatis: the domain of wraiths (pettivisaya), the womb of an animal (tiracchānayoni) and hell (niraya / naraka).
When the gatis are listed as sixfold, with the addition of the body of titans (asurakāya), it’s a disputed point where exactly the asuras belong. Those schools which regarded the asuras as a distinct class of beings held that rebirth as one was a hīnā jāti. Those (like the Theravādins) who denied the asuras’ distinctness held that it was a hīnā jāti to be born among those asuras which procreate with petas, but an ukkaṭṭhā jāti to be born among those which procreate with devas.
From Cone’s dictionary…
Gati
- going, moving; gait; progress, movement.
- where one goes or has gone; course, path; way, method.
- where one goes, where one moves; one’s sphere.
- where one goes to; one’s destination; a refuge, a recourse.
- where one goes in life, one’s career, destiny; what happens to one; outcome, issue.
- where one goes after death; one’s future course, state of existence.
Jāti
- birth, being born; the possibility of being (re-)born.
- a birth; an existence.
3.1. a type of birth, class, lineage; good birth.
3.2. a type, kind or species.- natural or true state; nature; iic: natural; true, genuine; naturally, by nature.
Maybe AN4.19 can also be relevant?
Bodhi translates agati as a wrong course. There are four ways to take a wrong course: based upon desire, hate, delusion and fear.
I found this interesting when i once investigated the theme of fear in the suttas.
Although in the sutta agati is related to …one’s fame diminishes like the moon…
maybe it can also be related to jati? In the sense that the course the mind often takes in this very life, probably will also determine the place of rebirth?
Course is here used in this meaning of Path. The mind takes a certain path when there is wrong view and wrong intentions etc. It takes another path when there is mundane right view, mundane right intentions etc. And it takes no Path at all when there is supra mundane right view (no building up of states).
Thank you very much for your answers. 
Reading them triggered thoughts. After your permissions, i would share what they inspired:
In terms of lineage, jāti seems to be the lineage of Mara whereas Gati is the lineage of Vasavatti. This is why, Jati is the condition for Jarāmaraṇa in paticcasamuppada whereas the first two stages of noble attainments are defined through gati. The Buddha’s first teaching to the five ascetics presents him as Vasavatti where the five sense resort to the mind. From these two lineages (Mara and his hordes and Vasavatti and his disciples), devas and asuras probably originate where the conflict over dominance (good and evil) provides ahara to the mind and gives it a continuum.
For the first two stages of noble attainments, Sotāpannas seem to have purified their g gatis enough to make it impossible for them to be reborn in apaya. As a theoretical possibility, Sotāpannas can still be reborn as humans, but we do not have cases in the suttas in support of that, as they are inclined to go higher in kama-loka. This makes Sakadāgāmīs a curious case as to why they return to earth/the human realm even though they are more advanced than Sotāpannas? In Mahayana, it is one of the indispensable duties of Buddhas to liberate their mothers. In other words, as long as the ariya disciple dwells in kama loka, rupa will remain hostage to nama.
In terms of knowledge, translating gati as destiny links to knowledge that is dependent on movement:
Cakkhuñca paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhuviññāṇaṁ, tiṇṇaṁ saṅgati phasso
so gati is a component of phasso that makes action appear purposive. This can be contrasted with other types of knowledge/ abhiññā that is independent from movement, which is attained though the jhanas and which takes the noble path from the Sakadāgāmī stage to the anāgāmī stage.
In German Nyanatiloka uses the even stronger übler Weg, “evil way”.
But it seems to me that the renderings of venerable Sujāto (“prejudice”), of venerable Brahmali (“bias”) and of the Thais (ความลำเอียง) are contextually much better supported.
In particular, consider the treatment of the four agatis in the Mahāsaṅgāma chapter of the Vinaya’s Parivāra:
How is one biased by favoritism?
It may be that someone thinks, “This is my preceptor, teacher, student, pupil, co-student, co-pupil, friend, companion, or relative.” To be compassionate toward and protect this person, he proclaims what is contrary to the Teaching as being in accordance with it and what is in accordance with the Teaching as contrary to it. He proclaims what is contrary to the Monastic Law as being in accordance with it, and what is in accordance with the Monastic Law as contrary to it. He proclaims what hasn’t been spoken by the Buddha as spoken by him, and what has been spoken by the Buddha as not spoken by him. He proclaims what was not practiced by the Buddha as practiced by him, and what was practiced by the Buddha as not practiced by him. He proclaims what was not laid down by the Buddha as laid down by him, and what was laid down by the Buddha as not laid down by him. He proclaims a non-offense as an offense, and an offense as a non-offense. He proclaims a light offense as heavy, and a heavy offense as light. He proclaims a curable offense as incurable, and an incurable offense as curable. He proclaims a grave offense as minor, and a minor offense as grave.
If he is biased by favoritism by way of these eighteen grounds, then his behavior is unbeneficial and a cause of unhappiness for humanity; it is harmful, detrimental, and a cause of suffering for gods and humans. If he is biased by favoritism by way of these eighteen grounds, then he is damaged and impaired, blamed and criticized by sensible people, and makes much demerit.
How is one biased by ill will?
It may be that someone thinks, “They’ve harmed me,” and he feels resentful. Or he thinks, “They’re harming me,” and he feels resentful. Or he thinks, “They’ll harm me,” and he feels resentful. Or he thinks, “They’ve harmed someone who’s dear to me” … “They’re harming someone who’s dear to me” … “They’ll harm someone who’s dear to me” … “They’ve benefited someone I dislike” … “They’re benefiting someone I dislike” … “They’ll benefit someone I dislike,” and he feels resentful. Because of these nine grounds for resentment, he is resentful, hostile, angry, and overcome by anger, and then proclaims what is contrary to the Teaching as being in accordance with it and what is in accordance with the Teaching as contrary to it… etc
How is one biased by confusion?
Biased by favoritism, ill will, or confusion, or by a grasped view, he is confused, deluded, and overcome by confusion, and then proclaims what is contrary to the Teaching as being in accordance with it and what is in accordance with the Teaching as contrary to it… etc.
How is one biased by fear?
It may be that someone thinks, “This one relies on the uneven, on thick covers, and on powerful individuals; he’s cruel and harsh, and might be a threat to life or the monastic life.” Fearful or frightened of him, he proclaims what is contrary to the Teaching as being in accordance with it and what is in accordance with the Teaching as contrary to it… etc.
Oke, thank you. I am not able to comment on this. I can relate to the idea that mind can take a wrong course based upon greed, hate, delusion and fear. And that is also not really different from what you have shared, i feel.
I think in the most basic sense, to say that something is caused, it has to have two components:
1- To coincide
2- to have a continuum
I think gati is responsible for meaning, whereas jāti is more accumulative and concerned with control. To describe the Buddha as tathā-gata makes the meaning of his utterances free from greed, hate, delusion and fear, and makes them more understandable by letting go.