(a response to a lady whom I at first did not elaborate)
Let me rephrase. First visualize a leaf falling and landing. It is not hard to see that its path was not random but determined by circumstance and the intricacies of the wind. The leaf could not but fall exactly where it fell. Perfectly exactly. The presumption that humans have individual wills inhibits the hard realization of what it really means that there is only one thing. All sentience is God wearing the ego of life’s experience. Its quaint at first, then intimidating. There being only one thing means everyone prosletyzing the possibility of evil has no idea what they’re talking about. I digress… All ‘evil’ is just crazy kids whose experience has led them to think they benefit from people believing in evil. In knowing how life functions (always aiming towards the peace it can conceive of) we can know where everything is ultimately coming from (sort of like 'to know what God looks like is to know what it doesn’t look like) ‘guilelessly’ maintaining mindfulness in the face of those who would attempt panic and rage instigation. Its sort of huge. So patience be with us.
This is in terms of theory. But in fact there continues to be two realities, the conventional and ultimate, known in Buddhism as samsara and nibbana. The practice of insight consists of the disempowering of attachment to the ways and customs of conventional reality. CR is not evil, being arrived at by common consensus over history, but its persistent claim to be ultimate must be refuted by the practitioner.
In Buddhism, sentience is sometimes defined by the “capacity to suffer.” Hence we get the phrase, “May I achieve Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.” May you as well!
When ‘common consensus’, in it’s naivety, reaches a certain plateau enlightenment/self-awareness becomes illegal. Then, by nature, the lovers of truth discover, and shine with, the objectification of courage (which is incumbent on seeing the imposed delusion of ‘free-will’ subsequently wholly transcending the capacity to hate with the imbuement of the grace denied those who think there is more than one motion).
I digress. I’d ponder writing more but time is something I’m dancing with. Have good days.
Anyway, why hasn’t anyone debunk the God determined everything claim in the OP?
Here’s the Buddhist position:
We have the law of Kamma, which reject the notion that God determines everything.
Evil in terms of having roots in greed, hatred and delusion exist and it’s exactly what we root out, eradicate in the process of attaining to enlightenment. The common beginner’s mistake is to hate evil, which is basically cultivating unwholesome qualities. The skillful manner is to abandon arisen unwholesome states, don’t give rise to unarisen unwholesome states. This right effort is a direction, a goal, the method is not to use aversion towards unwholesome states (except as a last resort possibly), but to use various methods in MN 20 SuttaCentral
Ultimately, it’s to develop morality, meditation and wisdom to eradicate ignorance, therein all evils are eradicated.
Also, physics wise, there could very well be quantum effects which propagates upwards from the molecules of the air in the wind to alter the final position of the leaf falling. So the final result is not able to be predicted with certainty.
There is an idea that the Buddha taught that we should not cling to the idea of an Ego-personality, just like the thoughts of Self bring one to selfishness, stinginess, and grasping, focusing on the idea or an Ego-personality can keep people in the prospect of “me” and “mine”. After this the world chases round, and round. But instead of “this is my house” or “these are my belongings” the Buddha Teaches the Path of Cessation, of Nirvana, the Teaching of The Four Noble Truths:1) The Truth of Suffering, 2) The Cause of Suffering, 3) The Cessation of Suffering, and 4) The Middle Way: The Noble Eightfold Path to the cessation of suffering, and leading us on The Noble Eightfold Path of 1) Right View, 2) Right Resolve, 3) Right Speech, 4) Right Conduct, 5) Right Livelihood, 6) Right Effort, 7) Right Mindfulness, and 8) Right Concentration, towards the City of Nirvana the Buddha fully liberates us from the sufferings of this world. Instead of possession, in Buddhism, we have infinite Metta, which is an Egoless, Selfless stage of Love: Enlightenment.
‘Conventional reality’. Was mentioned in the previous post.
When I say God I refer to the whole of all and it’s undulations within itself.
When the ‘arisen unwholesome states’ arise they face the demystification of objectivity. We are not greedy because there is a spirit of greed, we are greedy because we are naïve children raised under a delusion that lying is ok if it is ‘for survival’s sake’.
Morality is a static universal parameter measured by the brain’s satisfaction of the ego’s adherence to seen truths.
Well, Buddhism teaches not self. All phenomenon are not self. Seeing arising, the view of annihilation cannot come to be. Seeing ceasing, the view of eternalism cannot come to be. There’s just dependent origination.
I am not sure if your intention in coming here is to learn the Dhamma or to preach your own doctrine. Moderators, is teaching their own doctrine violating any forum rules? @Gillian
Egolessness can be known yet only reflected through humble egos. Patience be with each of them. There is only one thing which shines with the circumstances of it’s multitude of individual mortal experiences.
I hope you can delve into some of the writings of the Buddha, David, and try to understand the importance of His perspective and Enlightenment. I sense you believe in the Buddha’s Enlightenment, so, in turn, the value of His Teachings, and how they can apply to you, change your life, make you permanently Enlightened, unregressive, with no outflows or karma being created can bring you into a world of Compassion and Happiness that comes of it’s own accord, Joy and Equanimity, as well as Loving everyone fully and equally. You no doubt already have some of these attributes, how wonderful it would be for you to become more like the Buddha! I hope you take to heart and value the Buddhist perspective, because you have already lived by a number of Buddhist principles.
I am a fatalist hoping that those seeking the Buddha get what they’re looking for. If I learn the history and dogma along the way, so much the better, though if there is arbitrary presumption that I could not already be enlightened then I forgive and am resigned to accept whatever ruling.
I found an issue with determinism and fatalism, or the idea that everything is pre-ordinated. Albeit there are many constructions and laws, it is clear that the concept of predestination has a huge logic issue: tautology. Even without entering the discussion about God, we can see that: if everything is preconditioned, ultimately we must assume that even the first condition was preconditioned since if we believe that the first condition was not preconditioned, we will have at least one possibility of “will” and “choice” and that will negate the “law” that everything is preconditioned or decided in destiny.
In other words, the idea that everything is predestined. It’s a tautology, and tautologies lack explanation and feasibility: indeed, nobody has found one in nature.
Something like that can also be a nihilistic perspective on life, i.e. not engaging in trying to push for one’s direct hopes and dreams, but deciding to “go with the flow” and “accept what comes.” Building a philosophy to live out of that can make one accept the truth of things more often, and accept karma. But although Buddhism Teaches about karma, and cause and effect, the inspiration of Gautama Buddha comes from the prospect of ending your karma and being free of the cycle of birth and death. Fate cannot free you from death. Death will be inevitable someday. But a healthy study or Nirvana can Teach one the value of one day naturally giving up one’s body in Meditation while entering the Stream in Emptiness, perceiving all Dharmas as Empty, and maintaining the Truth of Dharma, as well, perceiving all Dharmas as without a Self (and without an Ego). That is true Emptiness, and such a Teaching has value because it can liberate you and even turn you into a Buddha.
Sir, your doctrine of fatalism is not wrong, infact on the path of Bodhisattva to become Buddha, that is one of the thing which is required the most…that is submitting to fate and burning our Karma although it is not exactly done like you are doing and it is also not done at the stage you are doing still its your choice. So in a way you are burning your karma by submitting to fate. It’s like for example we are in school and one day we have to go to college…you are like person who in school itself started studying one subject which is supposed to be studied in college.
But I just want to tell you one thing there are other ways also to satisfy oneself than satisfying yourself by submitting to your fate. Because if you continue this way you will face more of the suffering, pain till you have exhausted your karma and we don’t know when. Offcoursee your path is not wrong it is just more right and more painful and initially guided by view that is not perfectly right but is chosen by you so it may be right for you if you can take on the pain.
“Mendicants, I do not see a single other person who acts for the hurt and unhappiness of the people, for the harm, hurt, and suffering of many people, of gods and humans like that silly man, Makkhali. Just as a trap set at the mouth of a river would bring harm, suffering, calamity, and disaster for many fish, so too that silly man, Makkhali, is a trap for humans, it seems to me. He has arisen in the world for the harm, suffering, calamity, and disaster of many beings.”
Makkhali is the fatalist teacher in Buddha’s time.
Even all of the knowledge in the world will not save one if they do not make a constant discipline to apply it! Devotion to the Three Jewels is necessary to be saved in Buddhism, and the first step is taking Refuge in them. I hope people turn to the Buddha, sooner than later in their life, because following one’s cravings instead of the Dhamma can lead one down a long road of transmigrating from species of life to species of life. It is good to end such a process, and it cannot be left up to fate! We must turn to the Dhamma!
I wouldn’t say it was discipline that sustained my 18+ years (so far) of not using money. It was simple understanding of how it’s dependency is arbitrarily forced that rankled.
I am under the impression that ‘achieving’ Buddhahood is not about attainment but more about breaking a natural collar that suppresses our default intellect (delusion having as much purpose as anything).
Poetically, the issue is it is a story that is bigger than any individual drama or trauma, so its annoying when our systems of survival are found contradictory… truth is bigger than desire. Hence patience.
Hey, we both don’t want to suffer, we both want happiness, and it turns out we both revere Enlightenment. And the same is for the most of the people who participate in Buddhism. Most people are very similar in nature, and I hope you find more friends, especially in pursuance of the Dhamma and Buddhism.
