On the ordination of transgender people

The Sangha of Bodhinyana Monastery has asked me to give an overview of the ordination of transgender people according to the Pali Vinaya, in particular, whether such ordination is likely to be valid. To fulfil that task, I have written the short essay below. Anyone who wishes is most welcome to provide constructive feedback on this draft. I do appreciate your support!

Update: My apologies for restricting access to my article over the past couple of days. I was told that some of the vocabulary I had used was inappropriate and potentially harmful to trans people. This issue has now hopefully been rectified. I have also updated some other aspects of the essay. Once again, I am keen to receive further feedback, especially on issues that concern the Vinaya. Thank you!

I have been asked to give an overview of how the Vinaya sees the ordination of transgender people, in particular, whether such ordination can be inferred as acceptable. Before I start the discussion, however, I need to briefly define a transgender person.

Here is the definition from OED:

Transgender: denoting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond with the sex registered for them at birth.

For instance, a trans man is a person who is assigned as female at birth, but who experiences a misalignment between his internal experience of gender, which is male, and his physical form and social experience, which is typically female. As a consequence of this mismatch, he may choose to affirm his gender, either socially or medically, so as to align his physical appearance and social experience more closely with his gender identity. Or he may choose not to undergo such treatment. In either case, he is classed as a trans person.

It seems unlikely that any kind of significant gender-affirming medical treatment was available in ancient India.[1] I will therefore take the conservative position and assume it was not. This leaves us with trans people who have not had such treatment. There seems to be no reason to think that such people have not always existed, including at the time of the Buddha. If the Vinaya speaks of trans people at all, we will therefore assume it speaks of this category of people.

What evidence, if any, is there for trans people in the Vinaya Piṭaka? To start with, they do not seem to be spoken of as a class. The Vinaya contains references to various classes of people, defined by their sexual characteristics or behaviour, such as the paṇdaka and the ubhatobyañjanaka, neither of which group refers to or includes trans people. The paṇḍakas were probably a social category that existed in ancient India, for which there is no obvious counterpart today. The ubhatobyañjanakas seem to have been partly or wholly mythological and quite likely never referred to actual people.[2]

Then there is the term vepurisikā, found in the Bhikkhunī-kkhandhaka (Kd 20) as part of a list of questions asked of an ordination candidate,[3] and which I have rendered “manlike (woman)”. What exactly this expression refers to is a matter of speculation. Yet it is certainly possible it could refer to a trans man, that is, to a person registered as female at birth but who psychologically identifies as a man. The commentary, however, says otherwise:

Vepurisikāti samassudāṭhikā purisarūpā itthī.
Vepurisikā means a woman who has the appearance of a man, including a beard and a moustache.” (Sp 1.285)

I am not aware of any other terms or expressions in the Canon that might refer to trans people. It seems, then, that although trans people must have existed at the time, they were not regarded as a group that required special attention in the Vinaya. This in turn would seem to imply that they were not singled out, but rather ordained without much controversy. If this is so, how exactly, if at all, does the ordination procedure relate to trans people?

The process of ordination, both for bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs, contains a section where the applicant is asked a series of questions to ascertain their suitability for ordination. One of these questions is relevant to the discussion of trans people, namely, the question about the person’s gender. Here it is, as found in context in the ordination procedure for both bhikkhus and bhikkhunīs:

“The one who is giving the full ordination should ask about thirteen obstacles. It should be done like this: ‘Do you have any of these diseases: leprosy, abscesses, mild leprosy, tuberculosis, or epilepsy? Are you human? Are you a man? …” (Kd 1:76.1.8)

“The nun who is giving the full ordination should ask about twenty-four obstacles. And it should be done like this: ‘Do you lack genitals? … Do you have any of these diseases: leprosy, abscesses, mild leprosy, tuberculosis, or epilepsy? Are you human? Are you a woman? …” (Kd 20:17.1.9)

We want to focus on the two questions that concern gender. But first of all, as can be seen above, it is useful to note that these questions are part of a series of questions, all needing to be answered by the candidate. Some of these questions relate to qualities that bar the candidate from ordination, others not. For instance, if the candidate is not human, then, according to Kd 1, they are barred from ordination.[4] If they get ordained by accident, they are to be expelled. A person’s gender, in contrast, is never said to be a disqualifying criterion. In other words, if a woman happens to be ordained as a bhikkhu by the bhikkhu Sangha, then the ordination is still valid.[5] This is so regardless of whether the monks concerned knew that she was a woman, either before or after the ordination procedure.[6]

It is rather striking, in fact, that there is no origin story behind the question of the candidate’s gender. All the other questions in the ordination ceremony come with an origin story that is recorded in the Vibhaṅga, the only exception being the gender question. This may suggest a number of things—for instance, that the question of gender was a late addition to the Canonical text—but at the very least it points to the question of gender being seen as less significant than the other questions asked. One gets the impression that the tradition paid less attention to it.

This supposition is reinforced by the commentarial treatment of this question. The question is not mentioned at all in the Samantapāsādikā, the main Vinaya commentary, nor is there any definition of “man” or “woman” in the context of ordination. Again, this suggests that the issue of trans people was not regarded as a significant matter. Even in the sub-commentaries the question “are you a man?” is merely mentioned in passing (Vajirabuddhiṭīkā, 3.125), but no definition is given.

It may perhaps be objected that the issue of transgender people was not seen as significant because gender was regarded purely as physical. Yet the reality is that it is not always easy to distinguish men and women from each other simply on the basis of appearance. Both men and women can be androgynous, largely erasing any clear distinction between them based on external signs. This means that even if they regarded gender as entirely about external appearance, it would still not be obvious in all cases which candidates were men and which women. This leads us to the next point.

The Vinaya does not describe any way of validating a person’s answer to the gender question: the candidate is simply asked whether they are a man or a woman. It is up to the individual to decide how this is to be answered, and the answer must, it seems, be taken at face value. This is especially relevant in the case of an androgynous person, in which case the Sangha would have to rely on the ordination candidate’s answer. This opens up the possibility for a trans person to answer the gender question according to their own conscience. If they identify as a man, then, regardless of their physical appearance, they may feel it is appropriate to call themselves male. It may therefore be acceptable for a trans man or woman to answer the question “are you a man/woman?” according to their psychological identity, and moreover, that it is acceptable for the Sangha to accept this answer without further investigation and regardless of how they may perceive the person.

In reality, of course, there are all sorts of practical questions that need to be considered. For instance, it may be difficult, for whatever reason, cultural or otherwise, to ordain a trans man who appears very feminine. The local Sangha will then have to decide what will work in their context. It is the prerogative of the local Sangha to make such decisions.[7] At the same time, it is the role of the Sangha to lead the Buddhist community in the core Buddhist values of compassion and inclusivity. If the Buddhist community is not entirely tolerant of transgender people, the Sangha has the responsibility of educating it. It is my hope that, over time, transgender people will be accepted for ordination in all Buddhist monasteries and societies. The Sangha should be as accommodating as possible of all people with sincere faith in the Dhamma and who aspire to make an end of suffering.

This accommodating approach to transgender people is reflected in one of the stories found in the case rulings in bhikkhu pārājika 1. Here is that story:

At one time a monk acquired female characteristics. They told the Buddha. “Monks, I allow that discipleship, that ordination, those years as a monk, to be transferred to the nuns. The monks’ offenses that are in common with the nuns are to be cleared with the nuns. For the monks’ offenses that are not in common with the nuns, there’s no offense.”

At one time a nun acquired male characteristics. They told the Buddha. “Monks, I allow that discipleship, that ordination, those years as a nun, to be transferred to the monks. The nuns’ offenses that are in common with the monks are to be cleared with the monks. For the nuns’ offenses that are not in common with the monks, there’s no offense.” (Bu Pj 1)

It is not entirely clear what “acquired female characteristics” and “acquired male characteristics” mean, and we will return to this shortly. Whatever it may be, it seems quite likely that we are here dealing with trans people. If what is meant is a physical change in the person, then they would presumably not have identified with their physical sex either before or after that change. If what is meant is a change in the person’s sense of identity, then again, they would presumably not have identified with their sex at some point in this process. It seems, then, that trans people were dealt with in a matter-of-fact way, and were not rejected by the Sangha.[8]

Now let us come back to the meaning of the expressions “acquired female characteristics” and “acquired male characteristics”. It is noteworthy that the Pali grammar does not say that female characteristics appeared “on” a monk, which would have required the locative case. Instead, with find the genitive/dative case, which signifies that the monk “got” these characteristics. This significantly broadens the scope for the kind of characteristics that might be referred to.

In addition, a quick look at the Canonical literature reveals that the word liṅga, “characteristic”, rarely if ever refers to genitals. Instead, it is a broad term that may refer to a variety of things, including the voice or mannerism of a person.[9] It is not implausible that it might even refer to psychological characteristics, that is, one’s sense of identity. In fact, if we try to evaluate what actually happened in the above story of monastics changing sex—assuming that it reflects a real incident—then it is not natural to interpret it as an actual physical change from one sex to another, which hardly seems possible, at least not in a clear-cut fashion. A psychological change of gender identity, however, does seem possible. It is therefore reasonable to interpret the above stories as being about psychological change. In other words, a change in gender identity may have been sufficient for a monastic to be transferred from one Sangha to the other.

So far, I have mostly concerned myself with trans people who have not had gender-affirming treatment. Let me now briefly touch on those who have had such treatment. It seems to me that such people are, if anything, even more qualified to be ordained according to their gender identity. This is simply because they are likely to exhibit more of the characteristics required to be ordained in the relevant Sangha.

Let me sum up our findings briefly, before I conclude. We have seen that there is no evidence in the Vinaya for trans people being barred from ordination, quite the contrary. The fact that there is no word or concept for trans people, nor any references to individuals with such characteristics, must mean that being trans was not seen as a problem, even in matters of ordination. The evidence from the Canon, to the extent that there is any, suggest that trans people were dealt with in a matter-of-fact manner. It seems ordination candidates may have been allowed to ordain in whichever Sangha, male or female, they most closely identified with.

In conclusion, it is impossible to make an absolute argument from a Vinaya point of view that the ordination of trans people is either allowed or prohibited. Given this ambiguous situation and given the emphasis on compassion in the Dhamma, it seems to me that transgender people who seek ordination, in either Sangha, should generally be given the benefit of the doubt.



  1. Although, it is perhaps not as unlikely as it may at first seem. Kd 8 mentions various kinds of surgical procedures done in ancient times, including brain surgery. Certain kinds of minor gender-affirming surgery may therefore also have been possible. ↩︎

  2. For a detailed discussion of both of these terms, see the Appendix of Technical Terms in my recent Vinaya translation. Again, neither of them has anything to do with trans people. See also Ven. Vimala’s essay Yellow Gate. ↩︎

  3. But, interestingly, whose ordination is not invalid if they do in fact get ordained. ↩︎

  4. To be precise, the ordination question is about whether one is a human, whereas the Vinaya lays down a rule against ordaining animals. These things are not exactly the same. ↩︎

  5. Depending on the circumstances, she may have to transfer to the Bhikkhunī-sangha. As we shall see below, such transfer is actually described in Canonical Vinaya. ↩︎

  6. For some this argument is likely enough to settle the question. In other words, if the question of gender is not regarded as particularly important in the Vinaya, then there is no real block to ordaining anyone of any gender into either Sangha. ↩︎

  7. There is at least one Canonical examples of the Sangha potentially making use of this authority. See Kd 1: “On one occasion a brahmin went to the monks and asked for the going forth, but the monks declined.” No reason is given for why they declined, but the context suggests it was simply because the brahmin had not supported the monks in the past. ↩︎

  8. The commentary too approaches sex change in a matter-of-fact way. Here is an extract from its comment on the above Canonical passage:

    So ce paṭibujjhitvā attano taṃ vippakāraṃ disvā dukkhī dummano rattibhāgeyeva itarassa āroceyya, tena samassāsetabbo: hotu, mā cintayittha. Vaṭṭasseveso doso. Sammāsambuddhena dvāraṃ dinnaṃ, bhikkhu vā hotu bhikkhunī vā, anāvaṭo dhammo avārito saggamaggoti. (Sp 1.69)

    "If, upon waking and having realised the transformation, that person is pained and distressed, they should inform their companion that very night. The companion should comfort them, saying: ‘Let it be; do not worry. This is the fault of the cycle of existence. The door has been opened by the Blessed One; whether one is a monk or a nun, the Dhamma is unobstructed and the path to heaven is not barred.” (Taken from Ven. Pasanna’s unpublished rendering of this commentarial passage, with some modifications.)

    ↩︎
  9. In particular, see its use at bhikkhu pācittiya 2 and Kd 2. ↩︎

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Note: Bhante has significantly updated his essay since many of the posts below were made. You will eventually see his post where he announces the changes


I’m not sure if scare quotes are needed around the word wrong.

I’m not sure I follow the logic. What about people who have had gender affirming care? Maybe I missed this.

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Hi Bhante :slight_smile:

When someone is born, an employee at the hospital (usually) looks at the baby’s genitals and ticks of male or female on a piece of paper (hence the term ‘registered at birth’ in your quote).

The term “biological sex” makes it seem like gender is a natural or intrinsic category that trans people have some sort of psychological disagreement with.

But we are not asked as children whether we’d like to be boys or girls, rather, we are required by our families and society to live in a certain way because of some squishy bits between our legs as babies, and that is more like a crude form of genital astrology that we trans people suffer under.

People really believe in gender as some force emanating from the flesh rather than just how someone feels and thinks. It’s weird as heck if you ask me :cowboy_hat_face:

Also, fyi, the term “biological sex” is heavily favored by anti-trans activists. Using terms like “sex assigned at birth” instead signals non-alignment to the forces that are trying to eradicate people like me from society, so I would ask you to consider changing your terminology :folded_hands:

I can recommend you some good sources to understand the modern idea of “biological sex” if you’d like.

No bhante! :slight_smile: we are born biologically as babies, no one is born a man or a woman.

When I, a transgender woman, change my appearance, it is because – like most women – I like looking like a woman. And it’s a signal to others how I would like to be treated (as a woman).

The difficult part is that other people often literally believe that the genitals you had as a baby is really important and a big part of making you who you are! It’s such a crazy system and I wish more people would realize it, lol! :sweat_smile:

Isn’t it more natural to interpret this as referring to a trans woman?

Just because it’s hard to imagine past peoples as progressive on gender, that doesn’t mean they weren’t.

Bhante, would you believe me if you told you the idea of “biological sex” is a modern invention? That would be congruent with the complete absence of its discussion in the texts.

Why would they view gender through a contemporary Western lens thousands of years ago in a different culture, though?

Bhante, consider that this question should refer to what someone is at present, not what they were as a baby.

If I ask you “what do you weigh?” – it’s natural to think that it refers to your weight in the present, not your weight at birth.

Also, what if you were a woman in a past life? I guess it would still be acceptable for you to say you are a man – because you are one now.

Also a small comment, but trans is an adjective, it’s trans … people. Using transman/transwoman as a noun signals alignment with anti-trans activists who wish to other/de-gender trans people like me. Hope you’ll consider updating this.

Wouldn’t it be difficult to ordain a cis man who appears very feminine also, then?

Yikes, bhante! You’re really opening the door for discrimination here. Because the Sangha once decided not to ordain a Brahmin, therefore it’s okay to not ordain trans people? (footnote 6)

Except Brahmins were the most privileged class of that society, and trans people are the least privileged and most likely to suffer discrimination today (we already do so massively in employment generally).

Respectfully, this argument is not logically sound and it lacks sensitivity to the present situation for trans people.


Bhante, when I read your text here, it reads to me like you are coming from a very gender essentalist place. But the real reason trans men should ordain as bhikkhus is because they really are men. And the real reason trans women should ordain as bhikkhunis is because we really are women.

This topic wouldn’t even need to discussed if y’all just believed us when we tell you who we are. It would be much better if you just wrote “Trans men should be ordained as bhikkhus because they are men, trans women as bhikkhunis because they are women. Case closed.” ← this is the ethically and philosophically correct position, just fyi!! :slight_smile:

If you think words like ‘man’ and ‘woman’ are correspondence relations to a real ontological structure called biological sex, and that this biological structure is the causal origin for the state of Being a man or a woman, okay, but that a very non-Dhammic outlook, no offense.


Edit: And another point, it’s really the communities that want to be inclusive who need permission to do so. If you think it’s valid to ordain trans people, you should say so forcefully: Yes, those Bhikkhuni communities who wish to can ordain trans women, those Bhikkhu communities who wish to can ordain trans men, and this is A-OK with the vinaya.

If you believe this is the case, as a respected scholar and senior Bhikkhu, it’s really important that you say so explicitly and clearly.

:yellow_heart: :purple_heart: :green_heart:

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Thank you for tackling such a difficult, nuanced subject bhante. Best of luck. :slight_smile: :folded_hands:

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Anjali Ajahn,

Thank you for delving into this nuanced vinaya topic. I know that dealing with complicated vinaya topics, especially related to the variety of requirements related to ordination, is no easy matter.

I continue to appreciate your wisdom and clarity on Vinaya topics.

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Thanks so much for the essay, as always your position on Vinaya is both rigorous and compassionate.

I just wanted to confirm that this is my understanding as well. It basically appears as a term only in recent years, pushed by the anti-trans movement. Google’s Ngram shows its usage over time (although not the context, of course).

Sorting out these terms is tricky, and speaking as a cis male, I really appreciate feedback and corrections.

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(Venerable @Vimala’s enormous efforts on the subject are not forgotten.)

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I am very grateful to Ajahn for listening to our concerns and addressing harmful terminology.
There is plenty of room for improvement and would like to reiterate the following:

Subtle phrasing can unconsciously undermine people’s existence and reinforce harmful stereotypes.

Ignoring what others identify themselves as can actually be alienating and sometimes traumatizing. The misuse of pronouns might seem innocent, but it also puts the speaker’s discomfort and values before the other person’s. In other words, it’s a form of discrimination and harmful to presume someone’s pronouns or gender by looking at them.

Referring to people with terms or phrases that they don’t agree with — like “it’s just a phase” — is a destructive force that implies a sense of doubt, fantasy, or role-play.

Describing someone as a “former man” or “biological man” is not just demeaning, it is delegitimising. When you insist on using a former name, gender or pronouns an individual no longer uses, it symbolises a preference for your own comfort and can be outright rude, if done intentionally.

If you are writing about trans people then this list and short explainer compiled for journalists is a must.

The feedback inside this box was related to very harmful original essay.

While I am deeply appreciative of your support for trans monasticism and trans ordination. As a trans person I find the language used in the OP deeply problematic and offensive. I 100% support all that @Erika_ODonnell has written.

https://www.transadvocate.com/why-biological-sex-is-not-real_n_118140.htm

I don’t have the original tweet, and we don’t link to twitter but:
Quoting Dr Sawyer Kemp

There is no such thing as biological sex. There is an aggregate of five different biological data that we collect about infants that all present in various ranges and change over time.

… science has improved since you went to high school 40 years ago,.

What are the five different biological data?
Internal genitalia, external genitalia, chromosomes, hormones, and hormonal expression.

If you were to do a blood draw on a trans woman or trans man they would return the exact same hormonal markers as that of a cis woman or cis man. For those who have undergone gender affirming (not gender reassigning) surgery they may also not have the internal and external genitalia of their sex assigned at birth.

Furthermore

:

Reducing anyone down to their genitals is gross.

Here you can learn about what ‘the surgery’ is, and why this is a horrible question to ask about.

There was definitely not masculinising genital reassignment surgery at the time of the Buddha. I have a whole unpublished essay on the topic, which I will quote a small section from.


Was Jivaka a doctor ahead of his time?

We know that Jivaka performed advanced brain surgery, (Kd8:1.18.12) but altering hormones and performing genital reassignment surgery seems unlikely. The history of testosterone synthesis dates back to the early 1800s, However ‘the golden age of Steroid Chemisty’ is said to have not occurred until the 1930s. Testosterone - Wikipedia

Around this time we also see the emergence of genital reconstruction surgery from the pioneers Dr Harry Benjamin. Harry Benjamin - Wikipedia and Dr Harold Gillies Harold Gillies - Wikipedia

In an interesting turn of events, the first transgender man to receive phaloplasty (one form of genital reconstruction to create a phallus in trans-masculine individuals) was Michael Dillon was a doctor in the merchant navy and spent the last years of his life as a samanera in India. Dillon, died as Samanera/Lobsang Jivaka, taking on the name of his medical predecessor.

We can see the discussions of castration in the UpāliSutta MN56

Seyyathāpi, gahapati, puriso aṇḍahārako gantvā ubbhatehi aṇḍehi āgaccheyya, seyyathā vā pana gahapati puriso akkhikahārako gantvā ubbhatehi akkhīhi āgaccheyya;

Suppose a man went to deliver a pair of testicles, but came back castrated. Or they went to deliver eyes, but came back blinded.

Trans. Sujato (accessed 14 Jul 2026)

However, the vinaya is quite critical of the idea of a penectomy for a monastic.

Tena kho pana samayena aññataro bhikkhu anabhiratiyā pīḷito attano aṅgajātaṁ chindi.
On one occasion a monk who was plagued by lust cut off his own penis.

Bhagavato etamatthaṁ ārocesuṁ.
They told the Buddha. He said,

“Aññamhi so, bhikkhave, moghapuriso chetabbamhi, aññaṁ chindi.
“This fool has cut off one thing, when he should’ve cut off something else.

Na, bhikkhave, attano aṅgajātaṁ chetabbaṁ.
You shouldn’t cut off your own penis.

Yo chindeyya, āpatti thullaccayassā”ti.
If you do, you commit a serious offense.”

Trans. Brahmāli (accessed 14 July 2026)

Here we can see that limited feminising/de-masculinising surgeries were available at the time of the Buddha. However, these kinds of operations on people who are born with penises would not create alternative genitalia, nor would they lead to the development of breasts or otherwise the emergence of physical female characteristics, which requires the the drastic increase in the presence of oestrogen. Additionally, castration can lead to long tern negative health outcomes such as low energy and mental fogginess which are far from helpful for monastic life (source). (EDIT) It may have been possible to oestrogen to be have been synthesised in ancient India. See Erika’s comments below.

Masculinising Surgeries
Other ‘surgeries’ performed on people who developed external female sex characteristics during puberty, such as breast removal, may have occurred at this time. Though evidence of Amazons actually performing such surgery seems to be more a thing of myth than fact.

Additionally, it seems evident that there was not the medical science required to create neophalluses in Ancient India.

I think that we can rule out a biomedical transition, with regards to this vinaya mystery.


/end excerpt from my unpublished essay.

Furthermore, take the example of bhikkhu who is on tudong and is trampled by an elephant and sustains damage to his genitals. The monk has surgery to remove the damaged tissue, otherwise he might die. Is he now a bhikkhuni or ‘biologically female’ (scare quotes intended)? No. He’s a bhikkhu with a short urethra who would need to use exogenous testosterone to maintain suitable endorchine function. Just like a trans bhikkhu.

I have a lot more that I could say but it’s exhausting to have to defend one’s existence.

I will conclude with reminding people that trans people have always existed. Way before surgery, way before this horrible political climate which wishes to erase us.

Gender is like the dhamma paccataṃ veditabbo viṇṇuhi, it’s to be known for oneself, where the trans person is the expert on their experience. There are example throughout history of cultures accepting and believing trans people are who they say they are. The life of Iraqi folk singer Masoud El Amaratly is but one example.

ETA quoting from the commentary to parajika rule. I find the matter of fact nature used quite reassuring.

If, upon waking & having realised the transformation, that person is pained & distressed, they should inform their companion that night. The companion should comfort them, saying:
‘Let it be; do not worry.
this is how the cycle of existence is.
The door has been opened by the Blessed One; whether one is a monk or a nun, the Dhamma is unobstructed and the path to heaven is not barred.’

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I just want to add that the urine of pregnant animals (like horses or cows) contains large amounts of estrogen, so much so that in the English speaking world, estrogen was first synthesized from the urine of pregnant mares.

Fermentation can further increase the availability of estrogen in mammalian urine (source), and fermented urine is one of the classic allowable medicines in the vinaya.

So it’s not too far fetched to imagine the ancient Indians might have had access and knowledge about feminizing hormone therapy.

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That’s so cool. I’d like to imagine that :slight_smile:

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Agreed. I shall remove them.

Would you please expand?

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This is most likely hormone replacement therapy, which doesn’t get a mention in your existing essay. It makes a massive difference to the appearance of a trans person. A lot of the things which happen above the belt in a trans person’s transition are down to hormones. Genital surgery doesn’t perform these changes, despite the publics fascination with genital surgery

You can read about the effects of hormones here:

Transhub is a leading trans resource in Australia. They have a decent section on how to be a decent ally here:

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Note: this was posted prior to a significant revision of this essay. It’s still an amazing video essay countering many ‘scientific’ arguments made by detractors of trans people and those who have taken on such language by osmosis.

This is a great explanation, from a biologist, as to why using terms other than ‘assumed/presumed sex at birth’ don’t stack up. This is probably why it’s the standard in Australian healthcare.

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For everyone’s information, the OP has now been significantly updated. :slight_smile:

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First of all, thank you to the trans people in this thread who are putting in the time, effort, and emotional labor to educate everyone else. I know how draining that is, and I’m very grateful for your efforts. :heart:

Why doesn’t the discussion just end here? Since there’s no penalty to answering “no” to that question, it seems that anyone of any gender could be ordained without any repercussions. The ordination is valid, and the candidate isn’t even considered “undesirable” according to the vinaya.

Thus bhikkhus can ordain women, bhikkhunis can ordain men, and both sanghas can ordain anyone of any gender, regardless of their genitals, hormones, chromosomes, etc.

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Sādhu for this revised essay and for taking on board the feedback from the LGBTQIA+ community.

While I personally support Ven @vimalanyani’s proposal and see it as inline with actions taken recently in Taiwan for Venerable Denrong’s ordination as a non-binary person ordained as a bhikkhu by the bhikkhuni sangha. It might be a bit too far fetched for some communities.

I also fear that the sanghas and the lay community who surrounds them could easily fall into body policing — deeming someone too masculine or too feminine to ordain, even as a cisgendered person. Currently there are definitely monastics who identify with their assigned sex at birth who don’t fit into society’s standards for what a man/woman should look like. Which is often what we are talking about, rather than androgyny/ambiguity.

For communities needing more guidance, I’d propose that they recognised the existing state/federal laws behind gender recognition. Either going by the standards and criteria of where the community is located or recognising existing legal affirmation of the candidate. In Western Australia the criteria can be found here. These vary from state to state, throughout Australia, and even more so internationally. This idea has vinaya precedent under kd3:4.3.4 “You should comply with the wishes of kings.”.

This vinaya precedent also may offer protections for ordaining candidates in locations where anti-discriminations protections exist. Australia’s Sex Discrimination Act 1984 being one such protection — which has recently been tested in the Federal Court for discrimination against a transgender woman in a single-sex environment, see ‘Tickle vs Giggle’.

I’d also like to recognise the difference between the scrutiny applied to a candidate for ordination and someone who is transitioning and already ordained. Where a lay person may have access to far more resources to medically and legally affirm their gender, these are inherently harder to access for someone who lives without money and may or may not have supportive relatives.

Finally, I’d like to address the position on non-binary candidates and offer my deep compassion and sympathy towards you. Your aspiration to live the monastic life is just as valid. Having to choose a team and compromise who you are may be a source of significant dysphoria. I sincerely hope that there are communities where you can be seen and accepted for who you are, as per Ven Vimalanyani’s comments above.

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Might?! It certainly will be! Even Bhikkhunī ordinations are “too far fetched” for many communities, and that’s despite an explicit allowance in the Vinaya!

The question here, as I understand it, isn’t “what will everyone accept” but rather “what does the Vinaya allow.” No?

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Very true Bhante! :folded_hands:

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