Pāli word study: saddhā, saddahati, saddhāyikā, saddhāyiko

This study focuses on saddhāyikā in DN23 with its annotations. In particular, I’m interested in the idea that people believe something because they tend to believe people they know rather than experts.

To get there, let’s run through the basic forms of the root word. As a pāli beginner and lay practitioner, I welcome all corrections and improvements :grinning:

  1. saddhā the noun form = faith, belief, or trust (in someone or something)
  2. saddahati the verb form = have faith (in), believe (in), have confidence (in)
  3. saddhāyikā the adjective form = (someone or something) in whom one has faith or confidence

For Pali nerds, saddhāyiko is also the adjective form but in the nominative. Saddhāyikā is the adjective form in the instrumental declension. I think i got that right, anyway.

Fun aside:

This word family derives from the Sanskrit root √dhā, which literally means to position or arrange (something). With that nugget, you might intuit how we eventually get to saddhā, for example, in pāli. Or how we end up with paṇidhi in the lovely compound expression in Kp5:

attasammāpaṇidhi = “being rightly resolved in oneself”

On (1) above, we recognize it as one of the five faculties. This brief article does a good job explaining the various permutations of its dhamma meaning.

What we won’t find in the article is any mention of “beliefs” or believing in something or someone. Of course not. The Buddha espouses a highly empirical process for understanding the nature of things. We see for ourselves. We cultivate faith that way.

On (2) above, I haven’t done any research on its use in the suttas.

On (3) above, I show saddhāyikā in DN23 (“With Pāyāsi”):

Bhavanto kho pana me saddhāyikā paccayikā, yaṁ bhavantehi diṭṭhaṁ, yathā sāmaṁ diṭṭhaṁ evametaṁ bhavissatī’ti.

“I trust you and believe you. Anything you see will be just as if I’ve seen it for myself.”

We see our focus word saddhāyikā meaning “I trust you.”

(I’m ignoring the exact grammar here.)

What’s the context? At the beginning of the sutta we learn this:

At one time Venerable Kassapa the Prince was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of five hundred mendicants when he arrived at a Kosalan citadel named Setavyā…Now at that time the chieftain Pāyāsi was living in Setavyā.

Through a series of similes Kassapa tries to convince Pāyāsi that his strong materialist views are, in fact, wrong view. Early on in the debate, Pāyāsi challenges Kassapa – my very rough narrative, not a translation :smiling_face_with_three_hearts::

Imagine my closest friends and family have kept the five precepts. They all get sick. I go to them on their deathbed telling them “The Buddhist experts say you should all be reborn in a good place. Be of good cheer. But please come back to me after you’ve been reborn and tell me that’s happened. Because the only way I’ll believe it’s true is that you told me so and I trust you.”

Toward the end of the sutta, Pāyāsi takes refuge in the Buddha. Then a few more interesting twists and turns. It’s really delightful to read this sutta. Almost with Shakespearean comedy. As Bhante Sujato notes,

Say what you will about Pāyāsi, he had character.

:rofl:

Actually, an important annotation for me is this, referring back to Pāyāsi’s need to hear back from people he knows and trusts:

This is still a major factor in shaping belief. People will reject the opinions of experts and believe people that they know.

I don’t detect Bhante’s saying this is right or wrong; it’s just how it is.

A Buddhist might say, I don’t really aspire to beliefs because the path isn’t based on that. It’s based on my direct experience of how things are, through the practice, the gradual training.

The challenge is that most everyone else is shaping their beliefs about how things are based on their personal relationships. I mean, what did we just see in the US presidential election cycle. The candidate who won has an uncanny ability to make a lot of people feel like he knows them personally – and like they know him personally. For about 52% of the US population it didn’t matter what factual information was out there.

We owe it to one another to be in civil discourse about what matters in life. For most people, beliefs influence how they assign meaning to life. In this way beliefs are closely related to our values. We assess the worthwhileness of life through the lens of what we believe matters.

I would argue this ends up being a practice, too. In fact, without the occasional clarion call to attend to what matters in life, we naturally lose energy and vitality.

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What a fabled discourse! Why did Payasi not ask Kassapa to prove his point? Why did Payasi not demand proof from Kassapa himself, who believed in afterlife?

I don’t know and welcome your response :slightly_smiling_face: Wouldn’t Kassapa count as an expert whom Payasi didn’t know personally (until now) and thus doesn’t rise to the standard of someone he knows and trusts?

Honestly this is the first time I’ve read the sutta. The only reason I “found” it is because I was starting to research the Materialists in the suttas. Then I came upon this and I got stuck there.

Bhavanto kho pana me saddhāyikā paccayikā, yaṁ bhavantehi diṭṭhaṁ, yathā sāmaṁ diṭṭhaṁ evametaṁ bhavissatī’ti.

I’m likely missing most of the dhamma :thinking: and look forward to reading DN23 from cover to cover – many times!

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This is still a major factor in shaping belief. People will reject the opinions of experts and believe people that they know.

When we don’t know something, the element of trust is unavoidable as long we don’t know it. Where we will put our trust, it depends on our general understanding, fools most obvious characteristics is to trust things which don’t deserve to be trusted, and be sceptical regarding things which deserve to be trusted.

When I don’t know something, I also don’t know how reliable are so called experts, I can trust them or not, but when my uncle says something about the subject he never has studied, and I know that, I would not trust him, unless I generally consider him to be extremely intelligent.

And it is obvious that in this particular case, the trust would be placed not because some good friend tells one that there is rebirth, but because someone who died says that. If dead buddhist expert inform him about rebirth, the result would be the same :grin:

I’m also looking at Bhante’s “faith” note here in MN26:

“Faith” (or “trust”, saddhā , Sanskrit śraddhā ) was regarded as a quality of the “heart” through which one gained remuneration in the form of fees for priestly services (Rig Veda 10.151.4, Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 3.9.21). It is like the “trust” that one would place in a bank: an investment is made in expectation of a reward.

The context is the Buddha’s admiration for Āḷāra Kālāma, the first person he approaches to be his teacher.

‘It is not solely by Mere Faith that Āḷāra Kālāma declares: “I realize this teaching with my own insight, and live having achieved it.” Surely he meditates knowing and seeing this teaching.’

That’s my capitalization, as in I’m hoping for this because my life depends on it. That being Mere Faith.

Which is not faith as in I’m hoping my friend shows up for coffee at noon because she said she would. I mean, it’s not Mere Faith. My life doesn’t depend on it.

But if I don’t cultivate the second kind of faith, I won’t have any friends. What’s at risk is being disappointed, for the most part. (Even the Buddha said he was disappointed :frowning_face: when he realized Āḷāra Kālāma couldn’t be his teacher.)

I think Kassapa ends up winning over Pāyāsi, in part, because he spends all that time and effort with Pāyāsi. Kassapa earned his trust and confidence. From what I can see, Pāyāsi’s a faith follower (MN70:)

And what person is a follower by faith?
It’s a person who doesn’t have direct meditative experience of the peaceful liberations that are formless, transcending form. Nevertheless, having seen with wisdom, some of their defilements have come to an end. And they have a degree of faith and love for the Realized One. And they have the following qualities:
the faculties of faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom.
This person is called a follower by faith.

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Perhaps it was just because he wanted to have faith. That was why he gave in to Kassapa’s arguments so easily, even though they were just arguments, without any evidence. However, I do not believe that what happened in this sutta could have happened in reality. No one can prove by reasoning alone that “there is no rebirth, no life after death” as well as “there is rebirth, there is life after death”. And one cannot simply consider A to be true just because the opposite of A is proven to be false with a few arguments, like Kassapa. I think this story is written, imagined because it is quite one-sided. In a debate, whether in this era or in that era, Kassapa would have had much more to do than just a few petty arguments like that.

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I suggest it will be better to compare and contrast how the Pali word being presented in different major collections, instead of just one or two. The four principal Nikayas were not established at once in complete form and content.

‘The notion of faith in ‘Early Buddhism’ (not just ‘Pali Buddhism’)’ may be a good research topic/issue in Buddhist Studies.

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Payasi, in effect, states why: he had already become convinced after hearing just the first of Kumārakassapa’s similes, that of the sun and moon. It might seem odd that he would be persuaded by so seemingly weak (and bearly even relevant) an argument, but there you are.

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Yes, that is the truth of the text.

That’s optimal for establishing the meaning of the word in a dhamma context. Mostly what I do with these discrete word studies is work out viable English translations, etymologies, and so forth. It’s a way to keep me motivated to study Pali and hopefully inspire other lay students to keep plodding along.

The notion of faith in ‘Early Buddhism’ (not just ‘Pali Buddhism’)’ may be a good research topic/issue in Buddhist Studies.

Again, these posts prinicipally concern translation attempts. I’m in no position at this stage in life to do full-on research projects. That said, what you suggested sounds like a fun project!