Parinibbana in the sutta's

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Parinibbana in the sutta’s

I explored this subject to clear away some doubts. The plan is to post my findings the coming days. I also added personal comment. This only refers to my personal understanding at this moment. I hope you do not become irritated by it and can forgive me I uberhaupt have an opinion about this.

The following things will be discussed in the upcoming posts:

  • Parinibbana as the goal of Dhamma
  • Parinibbana, attained at the passing away of the arahant and Buddha
  • Parinibbana attained in a non-human existence
  • In this very life fully quenched, nicchāto parinibbuto”ti
  • Parinibbana, directly visible
  • Is Parinibbana a mere cessation?

I do not present this as a teacher of Dhamma. I am concerned, I believe just like you, with a right understanding of the Dhamma. I do not take this light heartedly. I also realize that true understanding of Dhamma develops from practice. I also do not want to debate for the debate. I believe this is really an important subject because we talk about the goal of Dhamma.

I hope you at least find it interesting and explorative to read those text dealing with Parinibbana. And you can always choose to ignore my comments.

I did use texts of different translators. I choose those of which I felt makes most sense. This might make an impression of being biased. I also not denie this. I think even translators cannot escape that they translate in a way that suits best their own personal understanding of Dhamma.

Wish you all well

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Parinibbana, the goal of the Dhamma

-“Friend, it is for the sake of final Nibbana without clinging that the holy life is lived under the Blessed One.” Purification is also for the sake of final Nibbana without clinging says the sutta (MN24) (Anupādāparinibbānatthaṁ kho, āvuso, bhagavati brahmacariyaṁ vussatī”ti)

-''Bhikkhus, all those who have reached certainty about me are accomplished in view. Of those accomplished in view, five gain the goal here in this world (kama loka, Green); five gain the goal having left this world. Who are the five that gain the goal here in this world? The seven-times-at-most attainer, the family-to-family attainer, the one-seed attainer, the once-returner, and one who, in this very life, is an arahant. These five gain the goal in this world.
“Who are the five that gain the goal having left this world? The attainer of nibbana in the interval, the attainer of nibbana upon landing, the attainer of nibbana without exertion, the attainer of nibbana through exertion, and one bound upstream, heading toward the Akanittha realm. These five gain the goal having left this world.
All those, bhikkhus, who have reached certainty about me are accomplished in view. Of those accomplished in view, the former five gain the goal here in this world; the latter five gain the goal having left this world.” (AN10.63)

About attaining parinibbana in another realm see a separate post on this.

-“There are some ascetics and brahmins who advocate ultimate extinguishment in this very life. This is the best of those who advocate extinguishment in this very life, that is, liberation by not grasping after truly understanding the origin, ending, gratification, drawback, and escape of the six fields of contact. Though I state and assert this, certain ascetics and brahmins misrepresent me with the incorrect, hollow, false, untruthful claim: ‘The ascetic Gotama doesn’t advocate the complete understanding of sensual pleasures, forms, or feelings.’ But I do advocate the complete understanding of sensual pleasures, forms, and feelings. And I advocate full extinguishment by not grasping in this very life, wishless, quenched, and cooled.” (AN10.29)

Most of the time it is just Nibbana that is described as the goal of the holy life or Buddha-Dhamma and not parinibbana:

-“Master Gotama, since Nibbana exists and the path leading to Nibbana exists and Master Gotama is present as the guide, what is the cause and reason why, when Master Gotama’s disciples are thus advised and instructed by him, some of them attain Nibbana, the ultimate goal, and some do not attain it?” (MN107, MN27, MN29 and many others)

Those that haves reached this goal of Nibbana …have gotten safely across the further shore (MN34) and attained the ultimate security from bondage (MN37, MN107). They laid down the burden, with taints destroyed (MN51). They abide in this supreme goal of the holy life (MN57, MN70, MN85, MN89)

So, they abide in this goal of Nibbana. This shows, I feel, that we must not see Nibbana as a concept of not being born anymore in the future. Nibbana is where one abides in when there is no grapsing and clinging anymore. It is experientially known as coolness, peace, the desireless, uninclined, the pure, the cessation of all agitation/fire. See: What the Sutta’s Describe about Nibbana - Discussion - Discuss & Discover

About anupādāparinibbānaṁ, extinguishment by not grasping

-“And what is extinguishment by not grasping? Take a mendicant who practices like this: ‘It might not be, and it might not be mine. It will not be, and it will not be mine. I am giving up what exists, what has come to be.’ They gain equanimity. They’re not attached to life, or to creating a new life. And they see with right wisdom that there is a peaceful state beyond. And they have totally realized that state. They’ve completely given up the underlying tendencies of conceit, desire to be reborn, and ignorance. They’ve realized the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life, and live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements. This is called extinguishment by not grasping. (anupādāparinibbānaṁ) (AN7.55)

-“Who except the noble deserve the well-understood state (of Nibbâna)? Having perfectly conceived/understood this state, those free from passion are completely extinguished (Snp3.12) Ko nu aññatra mariyehi,Padaṁ sambuddhumarahati;Yaṁ padaṁ sammadaññāya,Parinibbanti anāsavā”ti.

Personally I do not think that Nibbana and Parinibbana really points to different things.
I believe it is more like this: the ocean can be with waves (with feelings and perceptions) arising and ceasing, with senses active, with things felt). And it can be without waves, i.e. without feelings and perceptions (parinibbana). Completely stilled. But is it still the same ocean. In the first case this is called Nibbana element with remainder and in the second case, Nibbana element without remainder (Iti44). At least I tend to see it this way.

In the next post: Attaining parinibbana at passing away of arahant and Buddha

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Parinibbana, as what is attained at the moment we conventionally call the death of an arahant or Buddha.

A small selection of sutta’s about attaining parinibbana.

-"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathagata speaks, utters, or expounds in the interval between the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment and the night when he attains final nibbana, all that is just so and not otherwise; therefore he is called the Tathagata. (AN4.23)

-“Bhikkhus, from the night when the Tathāgata awakened to unsurpassed full enlightenment until the night when he passes away into the Nibbāna-element with no residue left, whatever he speaks, utters, and explains—all that is just so and not otherwise: therefore he is called the Tathāgata. (Iti112)

-“May the Blessed Lord now take final Nibbana . . .And the Blessed Lord has said: “Evil One, I will not take final Nibbana till this holy life has been successfully established and flourishes, is widespread, well-known far and wide, well-proclaimed among mankind everywhere.” And all this has come about. May the Blessed Lord now attain final Nibbana, may the Well-Farer now attain final Nibbana. Now is the time for the Blessed Lord’s final Nibbana.’ (DN16)

-“Do not go to me for refuge, great king. Go for refuge to that same Blessed One to whom I have gone for refuge.”
“Where is he living now, that Blessed One, accomplished and fully enlightened, Master Kaccana?”
“That Blessed One, accomplished and fully enlightened, has attained to final Nibbana, great king.” (MN84, MN94)

-“ Then a number of bhikkhus went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to him, they sat down at one side and told him: “Venerable sir, the clansman Punna, who was given brief advice by the Blessed One, has died. What is his destination? What is his future course?”
“Bhikkhus, the clansman Punna was wise. He practiced in accordance with the Dhamma and did not trouble me in the interpretation of the Dhamma. The clansman Punna has attained final Nibbana.” (MN146)

-“Devoid of lust, devoid of hatred,
devoid of delusion, without taints,
the naga, discarding his body,
taintless, is utterly quenched
and attains final nibbana;” (AN6.43)

The Tathagata attains parinibbana by the Nibbana element without residue

-"Again, when the Tathagata attains final nibbana by the nibbana element without residue remaining, this earth shakes, shudders, and trembles. This is, the eighth cause and condition for a powerful earthquake. (AN8.70)

-“The place where the Tathagata attained final nibbana by the nibbana element without residue remaining is an inspiring place that should be seen by a clansman endowed with faith. These, bhikkhus, are the four inspiring places that should be seen by a clansman endowed with faith." (AN4.118)

I tend to see it this way that parinibbana is not literally an attainment. In the sense of something one gets, gains, acquires. I believe it is more like one has come to see in this very life that the Nibbana element without residue was always ones home. I believe this is also not another element then the element with remainder. AN9.47 and AN9.49 show this, I feel. I believe it refers to the same stilled, peaceful, empty dimension or element in our lifes. But the element-with-remainder refers to that stilled, open, detached, egoless dimension in which also still things are felt and come and go, arise and cease. Also this ceases in Parinibbana (see coming posts).

So, for a noble who knows, also merely suffering ceases. Here meaning: Before already the suffering of the fires were ceased and now also anything felt ceases with passing away.

At least that is how I tend to see this.

Next post: Attaining parinibbana in a non-human existence

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Attaining parinibbana in a non-human existence

-“Who are the five that gain the goal having left this world? The attainer of nibbana in the interval, the attainer of nibbana upon landing, the attainer of nibbana without exertion, the attainer of nibbana through exertion, and one bound upstream, heading toward the Akanittha realm (highest realm of Pure Abodes, Green) These five gain the goal having left this world. (This goal is parinibbana, Green). All those, bhikkhus, who have reached certainty about me are accomplished in view. Of those accomplished in view, the former five gain the goal here in this world; the latter five gain the goal having left this world.” (AN10.63)

Attaining Parinibbana when spontaneously born (in the pure abodes)

There are many sutta’s that describe how, with the utter destruction of the 5 lower fetters, he/she is of spontaneously birth, due to attain final nibbana there without returning from that world. (MN6, MN22, MN52, MN64, MN68, MN73, MN81, MN91, MN118, MN140, AN3.86, AN3.97, AN3.116 and many others)

Attaining Parinibbana in other deva states

A. Via rupa and arupa jhana

There are also sutta’s who describe how parinibbana is attained in other non-human realms such as the deva states below the Pure Abodes. The sutta’s describe it like this (in my own words): When someone is firm in rupa and arupa jhana, often dwells in it, and has not lost it when he/she dies, he/she will be reborn in a corresponding deva realm. (For details see the sutta). The worldling remains there whole his/her life and when the lifespan is completed will fall back in one of the lower realms. The Blessed Ones disciple attains final nibbana in that very same state of existence (AN3.116, AN4.123)

In AN9.36 is described how this works when rupa and arupa jhana (except neither perception nor non perception) is combined with vipassana and… “ directing the mind away from those phenomena and directs it to the deathless element thus: 'This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, the stilling of all activities, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbana. If he is firm in this, he attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the destruction of the taints because of that lust for the Dhamma, because of that delight in the Dhamma, then, with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he becomes one of spontaneous birth, due to attain final nibbana there without ever returning from that world”.

AN11.6 describes how one dwells in jhana or arupa jhana (except sphere of neither perception nor non-perception) and considers and understands: ‘This jhana is constructed and produced by volition. But whatever is constructed and produced by volition is impermanent, subject to cessation.’ If he is firm in this, he attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the destruction of the taints because of that lust for the Dhamma, because of that delight in the Dhamma, then, with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he becomes one of spontaneous birth, due to attain final nibbana there without ever returning from that world”
The same is said for dwelling in one of the Brahma vihara’s.

B. Via Brahma vihara’s

Those who are firm in metta, karuna, mudita and upekkha, who dwells in it, and do not lose it when they die, they are resp. born with the deva’s in Brahma’s company (by metta), the deva’s of streaming radiance (by karuna), the deva’s of refulgent glory (by mudita), the deva’s of great fruit (by upekkha). The worldling remains there his/her lifespan and will then be reborn in a lower realm. But the disciple of the Buddha will attain final nibbana in that very same state of existence. (AN4.125, AN11.6)

Attaining parinibbana in the interval ( antaraparinibbayi )

-"What kind of person has abandoned the lower fetters and the fetters for obtaining rebirth but not the fetters for obtaining existence? The one who attains final nibbana in the interval. This person has abandoned the lower fetters and the fetters for obtaining rebirth but not the fetters for obtaining existence. AN4.131)

-"Again , some person fulfills virtuous behavior and concentration but cultivates wisdom only to a moderate extent. With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, this person is an attainer of nibbana upon landing (…) (AN9.12)

-"Again, bhikkhus, some person dwells contemplating impermanence in all conditioned phenomena, perceiving impermanence, experiencing impermanence, constantly, continuously,and uninterruptedly focusing on it with the mind, fathoming it with wisdom. With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he becomes an attainer of nibbana in the interval. (AN7.16)

-"And what, bhikkhus, are the seven destinations of persons? "Here, a bhikkhu is practicing thus: ‘It might not be, and it might not be mine. It will not be; it will not be mine, I am abandoning what exists, what has come to be. He obtains equanimity. He is not attached to existence; he is not attached to origination. He sees with correct wisdom: 'There is a higher state that is peaceful yet he has not totally realized that state. He has not totally abandoned the underlying tendency to conceit; he has not totally abandoned the underlying tendency to lust for existence; he has not totally abandoned ignorance. With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters he becomes an attainer of nibbana in the interval. (AN7.55)

The sutta’s gives this simile for parinibbana attained in the interval: “Suppose you struck an iron pot that had been heated all day. Any spark that flew off would be extinguished”.

Attaining parinibbana upon landing (upahaccaparinibbayi)

-"Again, some person dwells contemplating impermanence in the eye, perceiving impermanence, experiencing impermanence, constantly, continuously, and uninterruptedly focusing on it with the mind, fathoming it with wisdom. With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he becomes an attainer of nibbana upon landing. This is the fourth kind of person worthy of gifts (AN7.95)

-"Again , some person fulfills virtuous behavior and concentration but cultivates wisdom only to a moderate extent. With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, this person is an attainer of nibbana upon landing.(…) (AN9.12)

-"Then a bhikkhu is practicing thus: It might not be, and it might not be mine. It will not be; it will not be mine (…) With the utter destruction of the five lower fetters he becomes an attainer of nibbana upon landing. (AN7.55)

A simile for parinibbana upon landing is: “Suppose you struck an iron pot that had been heated all day. Any spark that flew off and floated away would be extinguished on landing. (AN7.55)

For more details about all this, see the sutta’s that are referred to above. I just gave a short summary.

Next post: In this life fully quenched

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In this life fully quenched/extinguished ( nicchāto parinibbuto”ti.)

Abiding having extinguished the khandha’s

-"Seeing thus, bhikkhus, the instructed noble disciple experiences revulsion towards form, revulsion towards feeling, revulsion towards perception, revulsion towards volitional formations, revulsion towards consciousness. Experiencing revulsion, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion [his mind] is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: ‘It’s liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’
"This is called, bhikkhus, a noble disciple who neither builds up nor dismantles, but who abides having dismantled; who neither abandons nor clings, but who abides having abandoned; who neither scatters nor amasses, but who abides having scattered; who neither extinguishes nor kindles, but who abides having extinguished.
(…)
"And what is it that he neither extinguishes nor kindles, but abides having extinguished? He neither extinguishes nor kindles form, but abides having extinguished it. He neither extinguishes nor kindles feeling… perception…volitional formations…consciousness, but abides having extinguished it. "When, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu is thus liberated in mind, the devas together with Indra, Brahma, and Pajapati pay homage to him from afar: (SN22.79)

“Abides having extinguished the khandha’s”…what can such mean? I think: To kindle the khandha’s is like welcoming feelings, emotions, certain perceptions, views, thoughts, delighting in them, craving them. Extinguishing would then mean, growing cool towards all that is sensed. Not craving any feeling, sphere, perception etc. There is just no unwillingly involvement with thoughts, feelings, etc.

Translators might avoid, I see, to translate it as ‘being fully extinguished in this very life’ probably because that idea is reserved for the cessation of the khandhas with passing away of the Enlightend Ones. But it seems that the Pali still implies full extinguishment during this very life. Anyway, it is safe to say that extinguishment refers to becoming totally dispassionate. Passion is like being on fire . This fire is extinguished in this very life. All that is felt grows cool even when this is unpleasant. But, I feel the suttas are not really clear. What to think of this sutta?

-“A disciple of the Buddha, mindful,
Concentrated, comprehending clearly,
Understands feelings
And the origin of feelings,
Where they finally cease,
And the path leading to their destruction.
With the destruction (Sujato translates ending) of feelings
A bhikkhu is hungerless and fully quenched. (SN36.1)
(nicchāto parinibbuto”ti)

The destruction of feeling in this very life? Where they finally cease? I believe this refers to that dimension where all six senses cease and also must be known (SN35.117)

Can we say that The Enlightened Ones abide in a dimension in which feelings still arise but because they do not establish (only due to involvement vinnana’s establish, MN28), there is also not really any suffering because of this?

One does not really abide in feelings?

Full extinguishment of the defilements

This is in the commentaries referred to as Kilesaparinibbana, SNI, Bodi, note 27

-“There are sights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. If a mendicant doesn’t approve, welcome, and keep clinging to them, their consciousness doesn’t have that as support and fuel for grasping. A mendicant free of grasping becomes extinguished.
There are sounds … smells … tastes … touches … ideas known by the mind, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. If a mendicant doesn’t approve, welcome, and keep clinging to them, their consciousness doesn’t have that as support and fuel for grasping. A mendicant free of grasping becomes extinguished. That’s the cause, that’s the reason why some sentient beings are fully extinguished in this very life.” (parinibbāyantī”ti) SN35.118)

“Bhikkhus, when ignorance is abandoned and true knowledge has arisen in a bhikkhu, then with the fading away of ignorance and the arising of true knowledge he no longer clings to sensual pleasures, no longer clings to views, no longer clings to rules and observances, no longer clings to a doctrine of self. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. (Anupādiyaṁ na paritassati, aparitassaṁ paccattaññeva parinibbāyati). He understands: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being.’” MN11 and others)

“Proficient, long trained in concentration,
Honest, discreet, without longing,
The sage has attained the peaceful state,
Depending on which he bides his time
Fully quenched within himself.” (SN8.2)
(Parinibbuto)

[The Blessed One:]
"Always indeed he sleeps well,
The brahmin who is fully quenched (parinibbuto)
Who does not cling to sensual pleasures,
Cool at heart, without acquisitions. (SN10.8)

“The five aggregates are truly burdens,
The burden-carrier is the person.
Taking up the burden is suffering in the world,
Laying the burden down is blissful.
Having laid the heavy burden down
Without taking up another burden,
Having drawn out craving with its root,
One is free from hunger, fully quenched.” (parinibbuto”ti) (SN22.22)

“Who else apart from the noble ones
Are able to understand this state?
When they have rightly known that state (Nibbana is known, Green)
The taintless ones are fully quenched.”
(Parinibbanti anāsavā”ti). (SN35.136)

“Those whose minds are well developed
In the factors of enlightenment,
Who through non-clinging find delight
In the relinquishment of grasping:
Those luminous ones with taints destroyed
Are fully quenched in the world.” parinibbutā”ti, (SN45.34)

“Who except the noble deserve the well-understood state (of Nibbâna)? Having perfectly conceived this state, those free from passion are completely extinguished (Parinibbanti anasava”ti.) (Snp3.12)

The way it all makes most sense to me is: The Nibbana element with and without remainder refers to same peaceful, open, cooled, empty (egoless) dimension in our life’s where the fires are totally extinguished, just absent. A dispassionate, signless, egoless, undirected dimension. It is fully quenched. Conventionally the sutta’s teach that one abides therein but there is not literally a person abiding in this extinguishment, i believe.

I believe, this dimension is not a khandha, no aggregation. It is not a lump of feelings, emotions, perceptions, or a combination of all this etc. To distinguish this, i believe, the Buddha introduced the concepts of sankhata and asankhata. Asankhata refers to the not-desintegrating, to what is stable, a real refuge (SN43)

This dimension is cool from the beginning. But incoming defilements cause that we do see this. Because there is this cooled dimension which is not an aggregate, not build-up, we can also make an island of ourselves, be a refuge to ourselves. With only khandha’s such is impossible (Ud8.3). Because there is no base for any stability if this dimension would not be.

Also this dimension must not be seen as me, mine, my self. I can see in my self there is a tendency to try to grasp all this, intellectually, but this desireless open cooled dimension cannot be grasped. When grasping ends one abides naturally in it. In the goal of the holy life.

Next post: directly visible parinibbana

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Directly visible parinibbana

I do not take Nibbana to be a concept. One cannot abide in a concept. For me the suttas make most sense to see Nibbana as referring to that dispassionate, egoless, empty, desireless, subtle dimension in our life’s without any grasping, with inner fires fully extinguished. The Enlightened Ones abide in this goal of the holy life, as it were (SN7.2, MN57, MN70, MN85, MN89). The suttas describe it as abiding in a supreme peace and coolness (see: What the Sutta’s Describe about Nibbana - Discussion - Discuss & Discover

The suttas reveal that jhana gives, as it were, a foretaste of abiding in this peace and coolness. But when all defilements are really uprooted (kilesaparinibbana) Nibbana as well as Parinibbana are directly visible in a non-provisional sense (AN9.47 for Nibbana, AN9.49 in the same way for Parinibbana).

AN9.49 seems to imply that the suttas do not really distinguish the nature of Nibbana and Parinibbana. At least that is what I make of it. I believe it refers to the same dimension of stillness, of peace, cessation and coolness. The sea can be with waves (nibbana element with residue, still perceptions and feelings arise and cease) but also without (Nibbana element without residue, no perceptions and feelings arise). But it is the same sea. At least, this makes most sense to me.

I believe Ud8.3 means: without this stilled, unmade element we were never able to abide in peace. Because, how can fleeting formations and states constructed which always fall apart, provide a base for peace and stability?

There are suttas that state: “He turns his mind away from those states and directs it towards the deathless element thus: "This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations (I think this must be all constructing activities), the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving dispassion, cessation, Nibbana.’ (MN64, AN9.36). This is in the context of samadhi.

I believe this is not like directing the mind “to the idea of Nibbana” but one turns the mind inwardly, from what is being known towards what knows, the empty peaceful nature of mind. I feel this is how Nibbana and Parinibbana becomes directly visible in jhana.

The suttas also describe that this stilling of constructing activities and cessation is something that is perceived. It is also referred to as the truth that is “hard to see”, subtle, and must be known together with the truth of dependent origination. Both these truths are hard to see but known and taught by the Buddha. (MN26)

-"Here, Ananda, a bhikkhu is percipient thus: 'This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, the stilling of all (constructing, Green) activities, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbana. (see also AN10.6), AN11.7, AN11.8, AN11.18, AN11.19)

At least this is how all makes most sense to me. It looks like Parinibbana is directly visible in this very life. I believe those two Nibbana elements refers to the same peaceful cooled dimension in our life’s when there is no grasping. When there is no grasping one can also not really describe it, or it must be something like this:

“It’s hard to see what they call the ‘uninclined’,
for the truth is not easy to see.
For one who has penetrated craving,
who knows and sees, there is nothing. (Ud8.2)

Next post: Is Parinibbana a mere cessation of 5 aggregates?

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Is Parinibbana a mere cessation of 5 aggregates?

The sutta’s use the phrase: all that is felt, not being delighted in will become cool right here. Mere bodily remains will be left.

-“He understands: 'On the dissolution of the body, with the ending of life, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here. (MN140)

-"When he feels a feeling terminating with the body, he understands: ‘I feel a feeling terminating with the body.’ When he feels a feeling terminating with life, he understands: ‘I feel a feeling terminating with life. ’ He understands: ‘With the breakup of the body, following the exhaustion of life, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here; mere bodily remains will be left.’’ (SN12.51, SN22.88, SN36.7, SN36.8, SN54.8)

"All that is felt will become cool".

I believe this refers to all that is sensed, i.e. known via the senses. That all ceases. But there is also a dimension that is beyond the six senses and there can be no feelings.

-“So you should understand that dimension where the eye ceases and perception of sights fades away. You should understand that dimension where the ear … nose … tongue … body … mind ceases and perception of ideas fades away.” (SN35.117)

So, when all that is felt becomes cool does that mean that this dimension ceases too? I do not see why.

-“Happiness, friends, is this nibbana. Happiness, friends, is this nibbana.”
When this was said, the Venerable Udayi said to the Venerable Sariputta: “But, friend Sariputta, what happiness could there be here when nothing is felt here?”
"Just this, friend, is the happiness here, that nothing is felt here. (AN9.34)

I believe, “where nothing is felt” is where all 6 senses have ceases. Then this shows to be a dimension without any burden, suffering. It is peaceful, cooled, unburdened but this is not something sensed! The happiness of this coolness and peace is not an object of vinnana. I believe it is more like the quality of this dimension. Unwordly peace.

The suttas explain that this is also perceived. (AN10.6, AN11.7, AN11.8, AN11.18, AN11.19)

As I said, I believe the two Nibbana elements are also not different elements. They do point to the same reality of stilling of all constructing activities (no grasping), coolness, peace.

Also alive the Enlightened Ones abide in this dimension but then still feelings and perceptions arise and cease without establishing, i.e. also no establishing sense vinnana’s.

-“That, bhikkhus, is Mara the Evil One searching for the consciousness of the clansman Vakkali, wondering: ‘Where now has the consciousness of the clansman Vakkali been established?’ However, bhikkhus, with consciousness unestablished, the clansman Vakkali has attained final Nibbana.” (SN22.87)

Would such a sutta as SN22.87 make sense when all would just cease at a last death? Of course then Vakkali cannot be found. If a flame ceases, it is, ofcourse, just non-existend anymore. Of course then it cannot be found. Such a sutta makes only sense, I believe, when Mara cannot find Vakkali because this open peaceful dimension cannot be entered by Mara.
-"Just as the river Ganges inclines towards the sea, slopes towards the sea, flows towards the sea, and merges with the sea, so too Master Gotama’s assembly with its homeless ones and its householders inclines towards Nibbana, slopes towards Nibbana, flows towards Nibbana, and merges with Nibbana. (MN73)

I do not take this merging literally but i believe this peaceful dimension is where we have always been, are, and will always be. Our focus on formations coming and going has made us, more or less, blind for it.

-"Just as, whatever streams in the world flow into the great ocean and however much rain falls into it from the sky, neither a decrease nor a filling up can be seen in the great ocean, so too, even if many bhikkhus attain final nibbana by way of the nibbana element without residue remaining, neither a decrease nor a filling up can be seen in the nibbana element.This is the fifth astounding and amazing quality that the bhikkhus see in this Dhamma and discipline (AN8.19)

I feel, also such a sutta makes no sense when Parinibbana would be a mere cessation. Of course then nothing decreases or fills up after death.

Parinibbana attained by the Nibbana element without residue

"Again, when the Tathagata attains final nibbana by the nibbana element without residue remaining, this earth shakes,shudders, and trembles. This is, the eighth cause and condition for a powerful earthquake. (AN8.70)

“The place where the Tathagata attained final nibbana by the nibbana element without residue remaining is an inspiring place that should be seen by a clansman endowed with faith. These, bhikkhus, are the four inspiring places that should be seen by a clansman endowed with faith." (AN4.118)

I believe this element without residue is always present. If it would not be present, there is also no escape from samsara.

-“There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, you could not know an escape here from the born, become, made, and conditioned. But because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, therefore you do know an escape from the born, become, made, and conditioned.” (Ud8.3)

Parinibbana past all measure

“These and also other great and mighty
Paccekabuddhas no more led to being -
Honour these sages who, transcending craving,
Have attained final Nibbana, past all measure.” (MN116)

If parinibbana is just the cessation of 5 khandha’s it is irrational to use words like “past all measure”. A flame gone out is not ‘past all measure’. It just does not exist anymore.

This ends this series of post on Parinibbana.

I hope I have not only annoyed you. It is clear for me that my posts are not very much liked, and many have choose to ignore me (in general a way of declaring someone death in buddhism).
I remind myself often that it is not about me but about Dhamma. But I also notice
that it is still too much about me in the sense that i tend to seek a lot of appreciation, confirmation, respect, status as wise person, like i understand Dhamma etc. I am not free of all this mess. If it has bothered you, i am sorry. It has bothered me to. Be sure, it is work in progress.

Maybe in all this mess that you see, you might also see something good and of worth.

This was my last post for some time.

Wish you all well.

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