Paul Williams & Intellectual Consistency

The genocide/ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Burma. There is an entire thread about it on here.

Its helpful to see how our religion stacks up against other faiths: The Harmful Influence of Religion on Society - Other Arguments for Atheism - Arguments for Atheism

I’m not advocating for any religion or faith based creed.

Does the killings by monks and lay buddhists ?

According to the Infinite Life Sutra, Amida attained Buddhahood ten kalpas ago, in the incalculably distant past.

The name Amida means eternal life and infinite light. Amida’s attainment of Buddhahood, therefore, transcends history altogether:

Sambutsuge (Verses in Praise of the Buddha) appears in the first volume of the Sutra on the Buddha of Immeasurable Life.

In this gatha, Bodhisattva Dharmakara, who became Amida Buddha in the beginningless past, praises the discourse on the Dharma and the brilliantly majestic appearance of his teacher, Buddha Lokesvararaja.

Bodhisattva Dharmakara expresses his desire to become a Buddha overflowing with wisdom and compassion.

Further, he vows that he will save all beings who are suffering in the world of delusion, enabling them to cross over to the other shore, having no regret, even if it would mean sinking in to the poisonous swamp of suffering and pain himself.

Juseige (Verses Reiterating the Vows) appears in the first volume of the Sutra on the Buddha of Immeasurable Life.

Bodhisattva Dharmakara, who became Amida Buddha in the beginningless past, appears and sets forth his all-surpassing Forty-Eight Vows with which to save all beings, and promises to fulfill them all without fail.

This gatha is so named because Amida Buddha reiterated in his Vows, that should all beings wallowing in the sea of delusion not be saved and that should there be any place that his Name, Namo-Amidabutsu, not be heard, he will not attain Buddhahood.
https://www.nishihongwanji-la.org/teachings/sutras/

The italics are mine.

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What do you think of the odd prophecy that after Amitābhabuddha’s parnirvāṇa, Avalokiteśvarabodhisattva will steward Sukhāvatī as a samyaksaṃbuddha?

Sometimes I wonder if it was put in to ensure that not even Amitābha would be eternal. Whether or not “eternity” is a safe word is also a point of contention in Mahāyāna IMO.

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The Sutra of the Prophecy Bestowed upon Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva, though interesting, is not one of the three canonical Pure Land sutras:

Sutras: The Three Pure Land Sutras Delivered by Shakyamuni Buddha

  1. Bussetsu Muryōju Kyō [The Sutra of the Buddha of Immeasurable Life]
  2. Bussetsu Kammuryōju Kyō [The Sutra of Contemplation of the Buddha of Immeasurable Life]
  3. Bussetsu Amida Kyō [The Sutra on Amida Buddha]
    Teachings | Jodo Shinshu Hongwanji-ha (Nishihongwanji)

The Sutra of the Prophecy Bestowed upon Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva, as far as I can tell, is not available in a Sanskrit version. It might have been a Chinese creation.

The name Amida means without measure. Amida is the Buddha of immeasurable life and immeasurable light.

Indeed. Perhaps a Chinese scriptures rises to respond to a Chinese development. Amitābha as a god is a prominent feature in Chinese folk religion. Perhaps such a scripture would have been intended to be addressed to them.

When people beseech Amitabha to have their worldly wishes granted, they are treating him as a god. This is discouraged in Jodo Shinshu Buddhism:

While always reflecting on ourselves, amidst our feelings of regret and joy, we shall live expressing our gratitude without depending on petitionary prayer and superstition.
Teachings | Jodo Shinshu Hongwanji-ha (Nishihongwanji)

What, other than rebirth in Sukhāvatī, would Amitābha grant?

Because Amitabha means immeasurable life, people in Chinese folk religion might beseech him for health and longevity, and possibly even the material wealth which provides it. These are common goals in Chinese folk religion.

Oh, I misread your earlier post and thought you said, “this is encouraged in Jodo Shinshu Buddhism.” :upside_down_face:

This is where Paul Williams refers to Amida Buddha as a historical falsehood:

More importantly, I consider Pure Land is built on a myth (i.e. ‘myth’ in a sense including historical falsehood – some Pure Land followers argue the ahistorical nature of this is an advantage over Christianity), the myth of Dharmakara Bodhisattva and hence of Amitabha Buddha. I have no reason to accept the existence of Amitabha Buddha, whereas I do consider there are excellent reasons to accept the existence of God, and of course Our Lord was certainly a historical figure, as was the crucifixion and, for me, the resurrection.
Buddhist Convert: Paul Williams

Rather than a historical falsehood, the story of Dharmakara Bodhisattva becoming Amida Buddha transcends history altogether.

Here Williams also claims that the physical resurrection of Christ is a historical event, but I haven’t seen his evidence to support it as such.

Those who find it hard to accept a trans-historical Buddha like Amitabha should read this famous Zen story:

A monk asked the Chinese Zen master Yunmen, “What is Buddha?” To this he replied, “A sh*t-covered stick.”
Shit stick - Wikipedia

If Dharma-body is in all things, that includes fecal matter as well. Why worry, then, if Amida is a literal Buddha?

In the image of Amida Buddha on the altar, and the recitation of his name, Namu-Amida-Butsu, we awaken to the outworking of Dharma-body in our daily lives, leading us to the Pure Land, the realm of Nirvana.

It should be noted, though, that the belief that the dharmakāya pervades all rūpa is a belief unique to some Japanese Buddhisms, having it’s genesis in some Chinese Buddhisms that have since died out there.

IMO fascinating apocryphal Japanese scripture which is outside the purview of this forum

At one time, Mañjuśrībodhisattva was seated on a jewelled lotus, having a five-knotted crown on his head, his dark blue hair hanging down to his shoulders, his bodily form that of shining gold, his left and of concentration holding a blue lotus with a five pronged Vajra above it, his right hand of wisdom grasping a sutra-box, and his body shining like an autumn rainbow.

Perfectly dwelling in the state of concentration called the moon-ring, he spoke to the Buddha, saying, “Bhagavān. We all have, from the distant past, listened to the Tathāgata’s preaching of the Dharma. From which Buddha did the Tathāgata hear this preaching of the Dharma sounds?”

The Buddha spoke to Mañjuśrī, saying, “I received the preaching of Mahāvairocanabuddha after passing through the forty-one levels to enter the great inner chamber.”

Mañjuśrībodhisattva again spoke to the Buddha saying, “Who is within the inner chamber of the forty-one levels?”

The Bhagavān again said, “After passing through the ten stages of abodes, the ten stages of practice, the ten stages of merit-transference, ten bodhisattva stages bhumi, the stage of becoming comparable to enlightenment and entering the inner chamber, I received the preaching of the Dharma by Mahāvairocana, who is at the stage of wonderful enlightenment.”

Mañjuśrībodhisattva again spoke to the Buddha, saying, “From what Buddha did Mahāvairocana on the state of wonderful enlightenment receive the preaching of the Dharma?”

The Bhagavān replied, “Mahāvairocanabuddha on the stage of wonderful enlightenment received the preaching of the Dharma from the beginningless and endless original Buddha who is of one mind and one thought.”

Mañjuśrībodhisattva again spoke to the Buddha saying, “From what Buddha did the beginningless and endless original Buddha who is of one mind and one thought receive the preaching of the Dharma?”

The Bhagavān again said, “The beginningless and endless original Buddha who is of one mind and one thought received the preaching of the Dharma from the original Buddha of no mind and no thought.”

Mañjuśrī again spoke to the Buddha, saying, “From what Buddha did the original Buddha of no mind and no thought receive the preaching of the Dharma?”

The Bhagavān again said, “There is no Buddha above and beyond the original Buddha of no mind and no thought. There is no Buddha below and no Buddha after no mind and no thought. The original Buddha is in essence beyond conceptual understanding. From the beginning he does not go nor come, does not have the nature of the threefold body, does not have the nature of the ten destinies.

Mañjuśrī again spoke to the Buddha, saying, “If above and beyond the original Buddha of no mind and no thought there is no nature of the threefold body and the ten destinies, from what basis do the threefold body and ten destinies arise?”

The Bhagavān again said, “The original Buddha of no mind and no thought is by nature beyond conceptual understanding. Both the conceptually understood natures of the threefold body and sentient beings in the ten destinies, and the nature of that which is without a nature, arise from the nature that is beyond conceptual understanding.”

Mañjuśrī again spoke to the Buddha, saying, “If this is so, then is there no Buddha who teaches at the beginning?”

The Bhagavān again said, “There is nothing that teaches or receives above and beyond the original Buddha of no mind and no thought. Moreover, this is a single Buddha, and there are not two Buddhas. You all should shut your eyes and contemplate the original Buddha that is without beginning and without end.”

Mañjuśrī spoke to the Buddha, saying, “That which the Bhagavān preaches is exceedingly profound. It is true yet beyond our power to comprehend. It is good; it is good. I gladly preach this sutra.”

At that time Bhiṣmagarjītasevararājanāmatathāgata spoke to Mañjuśrī, the prince of the Dharma, saying, “Well done, prince of the Dharma. You have questioned the Tathāgata in such a way that it is cause for a great event. Now, listen carefully; listen carefully. Reflect well on these things.”

The Buddha, after preaching this sutra, sat in the lotus position and entered the concentration that is wonderful and supreme. At that time, Mañjuśrī, prince of the Dharma, and everyone in the assembly of eighty-four thousand monks, all entered the samādhi through the power of the Buddha.

The following events were seen.

The Buddha, from within his state of concentration, emitted a great circle of light from his own face, illuminating with insight Mañjuśrī and the eighty-four thousand monks. A sword of wisdom appeared from the top of Mañjuśrī’s head, and from his side emerged a golden-haired lion. The Tathāgata’s ray of light extended everywhere, and the colour of his body was like that of gold.

Mañjuśrī spoke to the Buddha, saying, “Bhagavān. We have attained unprecedented insight. Our hearts greatly rejoice.”

The Tathāgata again preached in a verse, saying,

The supreme path of all Buddhas
Has the marks of perfect light and eternal abiding.
Those who enter meditative concentration together with the Buddha
In the same way realize bodhicitta.

When the Buddha finished preaching these verses, the great monks in the assembly at once stood up, bowed, and went on their way.

(Nihon Daizōkyō Hensankai, Shugendō shōso 1, bussetsu sanjin juryōmuhen kyō, Sutra on the Unlimited Life of the Threefold Body )

The Dharmakaya is both within all things and is the totality of all existence. Have you read The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana? The Dharmakaya is not a God, wholly other from creation.

This is another Chinese apocryphal text. Yes, I have read it.

That the dharmakāya pervades insentient existence is no longer the dominant trend in interpreting that text, at least outside of Japan. Instead, it is interpreted from a Yogācāra view, namely that all things are knowable as “mind only,” this mind being tathāgatagarbha at the root.

Even if apocryphal, it’s deeply based on Indian Buddhist thought.

Are you referring to Hongaku or original enlightenment?

The Tendai view of hongaku saw it as encompassing not only all sentient beings, but all living things and all nature, even inanimate objects - all were considered to be Buddha. This also includes all our actions and thoughts, even our deluded thoughts, as expressions of our innately enlightened nature.[[2]]
Hongaku - Wikipedia

Though influential in Japanese Buddhism, I don’t believe that the concept of enlightenment pervading all things originated in Japan. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in some way influenced by Taoism.

It is also deeply based on Chinese thought, though, too. Such as 體用 thinking. Although 體用 thinking may or may not be adaptable to the Buddhadharma, it is not Indian Mahāyāna. Not being Indian Mahāyāna isn’t really a bit deal, though. All of this ultimately is material to build around a base set of teachings that is shared. Imo at least.

[/quote]

I don’t understand the connection to 本覺 or root awakening. When I am talking about is the belief that the dharmakāya pervades insentient objects apart from through your mind, that the witnessed phenomenal world is a Buddha, like in that Japanese scripture I put above. Therein, the “Buddha of No Thought and No Mind” is simply arisen reality. The dharmadhātu, personified as dharmakāya.

Zen Master Yunmen was Chinese, not Japanese, so the belief in enlightenment pervading all things might not have originated in Japan. Maybe it’s hinted at in the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, and is not simply due to Taoist influence.

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Yes, the Japanese belief has

Chan no longer teaches a seperate Buddha-nature for insentient objects AFAIK. Do you know anyone in Chan teaching this?

The Dharma body of the Buddha is one with everything. This is the highest level of truth. Though there are many Buddhas, at this level all Buddhas are the same. The Dharma body is not a “body” in the sense that it is a fixed existence like the reward body or manifested body, for it pervades all of the universe.

The Dharma body is the ultimate truth of all things. It is awakening itself, the supreme reality, the cosmic consciousness that subsumes and includes everything in the universe. The Dharma body is completely pure. It is the union of reason and wisdom. It is omnipresent. To attain awakening and the Dharma body is the ultimate goal of all Buddhist practice. The Dharma body is beyond all duality. The Flower Adornment Sutra says, “Dharma nature is fundamentally empty. It cannot be grasped or seen. In its emptiness it is one with the Buddha realm. It cannot be comprehended by mere thought.”

Though the true nature of the Dharma body cannot be described in words, it has certain qualities that can be roughly described. Thinking about these qualities can help us reach a deeper understanding of what is meant by the term “Dharma body.”

The Dharma body is the unification of reason and principle. It is universal and equally present everywhere. It is the one principle that underlies everything. Within the Dharma body, all distinctions cease.

The Dharma body is the unification of principle and event. All laws and all occurrences of them are unified in the Dharma body. All duality is unified in the Dharma body. The phenomenal universe and its fundamental emptiness are unified in the Dharma body.

The characteristics of the Dharma body are the same as the characteristics of all phenomena. All things in the universe are interconnected. The Dharma body resides in each and every one of them and yet it is not the same as any of them. The Dharma body exists in all times and places without being defined or contained by any of them.

The Dharma body is the same as the intrinsic, pure Buddha nature that resides in all things everywhere. The deluded self can find peace when it understands that it inherently possesses Buddha nature, that this nature pervades all things. Our wish to find what is real and permanent can only be resolved by attaining the Dharma body.
Hsingyun.org