Perception and conception?

The Buddha new that the teachings he shared were different from the liberation he had discovered - and everything else implied in that discovery.

We can take it on faith that he had actually discovered something beyond words and ideas. The only way his teachings can be verified is by making the same discovery - that which the teachings are pointing to.

Anything that is said or thought about awakening is based on - grounded in - perception and cognition. Awakening is not a perception or a concept but don’t take anyone’s word for it.

We need to find out for ourselves whether the liberation teachings are the way it is - in truth.

A less than kind accusation was made against me in a thread I initiated - the other day. No warning of a breach of guidelines or, proper etiquette seemed necessary - by those who are given that responsibility.

I can only conclude from this that there is an exception to the rule when it comes to participants here being villified - openly - in this forum.

Laurence can be accused of being a demented stalker - without provision of evidence - and nobody points out the inappropriateness of this comment in this forum. Including the moderators. This intentionally hurtful and malicious comment was made and it was assumed that it must be true.

This tells me, unequivocally, that my presence is deeply unwelcome here so I will have to bid my farewell. Its been interesting and thanks for your Buddhist understanding and good will.

It seems that many will be breathing a sigh of relief - very good.

I would be grateful if the moderators could provide me with guidance as to how to deactivate my account - withdraw from this organisation.

I would also be grateful if all the threads that I have initiated and comments I have made could be erased if possible? Best wishes, Laurence

Please note that as specified in the guidelines, all moderation is confidential and is not made available to other users.
As such, no user can know what has occurred with regards to moderation of anyone else. This is exactly as it should be.

Only ‘in-thread’ posts (like this one) by moderators are visible as they are meant for the whole group, and therefore not confidential.
Please avoid making assumptions about these things.

All participants are responsible for their own comments, no matter what else is said in a thread. It is the moderators role to deal with these things, and making assumptions about what may have happened behind the scenes is not helpful. Participants only need to focus on their own right speech, and kindness to fellow members.

with Metta

Viveka

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I understand what you’re saying and that is perfectly in order.

I was not making assumptions about the communications between moderators and participants - confidentially. I was referring to an observed protocol that involves a moderator steering a conversation back in the direction of right speech that happens in a thread.

In this particular instance, someone was referred to as a ‘stalker’ and nothing was said by anyone about the appropriateness of this accusation in a Buddhist forum. If there is no reason for concern when something like this happens - which is unprecedented in my experience - then, I find that surprising.

I have to concede that you may understand something about appropriate moderation in situations like this that I am not familiar with. Nevertheless, the accusation - the villification - is still there and, no reason has been found to have it withdrawn or modified.

I have been required in the past to modify my comments as they were seen as inappropriate. I have done so and, thanked the moderator for their guidance.

I have never said anything as overtly and intentionally offensive as is found in this instance. But, the comment still remains - no modification required - why?

Why is it alright to accuse someone of being a mentally-ill stalker and, leave that comment intact?

I really do wish all the mittas well - may we all live together in friendship. If it is not that difficult to simply delete the thread I initiated that went of the rails - then that might prove beneficial.

This thread could also disappear in the process without any problem arising. It appears to be an option available to the moderators - may we all live in peace.

With metta, Laurence

Take a break, listen to some Dhamma talk, have a laugh with someone close and a good night of sleep. Give time some time. Be well mate. :anjal:

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Thanks mate, same to you. I do believe the situation could be improved with a bit of skilful Buddhist editing that no-one would find problematic. A moderator could identify where the conversation became unskilful and delete those comments - mine and others - where things took a turn for the worse. As I initiated the thread and it became an unedifying experience I would not object to a creative solution that reflects our shared values - just sayin! But, if what I’m saying is viewed as completely unreasonable - the views of a mad stalker - then, show me the exit! :heart_eyes:

Avera sukha jīvino…
Hi Laurence I think everyone here has ‘samma saṇkappa/right intention,’ or else we wouldn’t be here! Which is wishing each other well, I would doubt that any moderator would wish that you be insulted and I’m sure they have the best I intentions for you also. Sometimes it’s natural to have misunderstandings/disagreements arise, the point is that we don’t take these things personally. If you can muster up enough intention please stay, S.C has good things to offer everyone, friendship, knowledge. Think of all the good people you are cutting out and all the sādhu jana’s who won’t be able to engage with you anymore… ‘kalyaṇa mitta’s’ stay with each other through thick and thin ‘sukhe duhkhe va yo sakhā…’

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A big hug and a deep bow to all of those who we find difficult. They are the best of teachers.

The title of this thread resonated very much because I had just read MN1 translated by Bhante Sujato.

Whatever the perception, or subsequent conception that we have, I guess the response is the same - “Make peace, be kind, be gentle” as some wise guy once said.

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I have no personal objections to anything on that thread being deleted. But others participated on it too, so I can’t speak for them.

I did not say anything that I thought was intentionally hurtful. It was a spontaneous self-defensive outburst following what I perceived as months of badgering.

On behalf of the moderators I reiterate yet again, that each participant is responsible for what they say.

The moderators are not here to clean up peoples careless or unkind speech. Participants are expected to excersize restraint.

As is made clear in the forum description, comments, including all the unkind and unskillful things that have been said, constitute a permanent public record - so “don’t post what you wouldn’t say in a temple”.

Deleting comments is only done in exceptional circumstances. Sadly there is a pretty big record of unskillful speech in the forum. When an account is deactivated that individuals posts aren’t able to be deleted wholesale because of the participation of other members.

Finally, If anyone has any issues regarding moderation decisions, please contact the moderators directly to discuss as the first option. We are a friendly and well intentioned bunch :slight_smile:

Discussing such things in the public space, where full and accurate facts must be withheld due to confidentiality issues, ends up being divisive and fractious and therefore becomes an antithesis to a harmonious community. Please note, the moderators are a small voluntary team, across global time zones, so moderation often takes time and it is important to practice patience and restraint.

With metta
:anjal::dharmawheel:
Viveka
(on behalf of the Moderator team)

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