Please report any errors or typos!

[sabbamitta]

MN 19 #SC 12.1

Suppose it’s the last month of summer, when all the crops have been gathered into the neighborhood of a village, and a cowherd must take care of the cattle. While at the root of a tree or in the open he need only be mindful that

This is just an example, and similar instances occur in many suttas.

The segment ends with “that”, a conjunction that introduces a sub-clause which is given in the following segment:

the cattle are there.

From the Pali it is understandable to beak the segment at this point, as the sub-clause here takes the form of a direct speech (with Quotation marks). But in the English this isn’t the case.

When reading the text this didn’t appear to me so much as a problem, but now when listening through SC-Voice it feels quite disturbing to have the conjunction in one segment, and then having to wait before hearing where it leads to (especially when listening bilingual Pali—English which is what I mostly do). The flow would be more natural if the “that” would be moved to the following segment.

Another instance being for example in AN 8.53:

You should definitely bear in mind that these things are
ekaṃsena, gotami, dhāreyyāsi:
not the teaching, not the training, and not the Teacher’s instructions.
‘neso dhammo, neso vinayo, netaṃ satthusāsanan’ti.

“are” should be moved to the next segment.

Just something for you to consider…

[SarathW1]

@sujato
DN21
Is it “Three and Thirty” or “Thirty and three” or “Thirty three”?

[karl_lew]

@SarathW1

Is it “Three and Thirty” or “Thirty and three” or “Thirty three”?

For consistency in searching, I would favor just one of those throughout the translations even though they are all valid.

[karl_lew]

SN 22.90 — Bhikkhu Sujato

insistence, and underlying tendency—you don’t get atracted , grasp, and commit to the notion “my self”, you’ll

[SarathW1]

@sujato
I just notice the word thought is used to translate Vitakka - Vicara as well as Sankappa.
What are the other pali words you used as thought?
Is it possible to have an alternate word for them?
Just thinking aloud.

[SarathW1]

@sujato
DN24

The end continues after the end of.

satisfied, the wanderer Bhaggavagotta was happy with what the Buddha said.

[Robbie]

In MN 21 the name of the mendicant moḷiyaphagguno is translated as Venerable Phagguna of the Top-Knot. However, in SN 12.32 his name is translated as Moḷiyaphagguna.

[SarathW1]

<ol><li>Painful practice with slow insight, </li><li>painful practice with swift insight, </li><li>pleasant practice with slow insight, and </li><li>pleasant practice with swift insight.</li></ol>

DN28

[karl_lew]

@SarathW1

<ol><li>Painful practice with slow insight, </li><li>painful practice with swift insight, </li><li>pleasant practice with slow insight, and </li><li>pleasant practice with swift insight.</li></ol>

DN28

These are actually SuttaCentral Voice problems, not SuttaCentral problems. SuttaCentral DN28 has no problems.

But thanks for reporting. The HTML removal is buggy in SuttaCentral Voice. Added to the Release-Plan.

[sabbamitta]

@karl_lew

Added to the Release-Plan.

It was already in the RP; now we have it twice.

[karl_lew]

@sabbamitta

It was already in the RP;

Yes. I just added “DN28” for us to confirm during testing. There will probably be edge cases that keep popping up (e.g., the problems with numbers we keep on having).

[sabbamitta]

AN 7.51

At SC 1.1 Saṃyogavisaṃyogaṃ vo, bhikkhave, dhammapariyāyaṃ desessāmi is translated “Mendicants, I will teach you an exposition of the teaching on the bound and the unbound.”

At SC 5.12 the Buddha summarizes: Ayaṃ kho, bhikkhave, saṃyogo visaṃyogo dhammapariyāyo”ti., and this is translated “This is the exposition of the teaching on connection and disconnection.”

Throughout the whole sutta “bound” and “unbound” are used in English; to keep it consistent this should also be the case for the last paragraph—or is there a special reason to change it here?

[sujato]

@Paliaudio.com

DN 24 About Patikaputta.
There are 4 paragraphs after
"That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the wanderer Bhaggavagotta was happy with what the Buddha said. "

Thanks, this is fixed. It was a bug in how the IDs were made. We have tested and checked these a variety of ways, yet still this eluded us!

@Robbie

My knowledge of English is imperfect

Are you sure about that? These are all excellent, and now fixed.

@Robbie

Is the river called Sarassati or Sarasvati?

Both: sarassati is pali, sarasvati is sanskrit. It’s one of those cases where the sanskrit form is probably better known.

@Snowbird

It appears this sutta has what I am guessing are old span tags

No, they are current. Where a translator wishes to indicate that terms have been added, we represent that. I don’t recommend it as a practice, but t is possible to do.

@Brahmali

DN 16, the first of the eight abhibhāyatana

Thanks, fixed. And I also fixed an inconsistency in the subject of the sentences

@karl_lew

In English Bhante Sujato has put the “not” with the “not perceiving”. But in Pali, it is literally “perceiving internally not-form”

Well, the compound could be read either way, but if it was “one perceives not-form”, then it would imply one was perceiving the formless realms, which is obviously not what is intended.

@sabbamitta

when listening through SC-Voice it feels quite disturbing to have the conjunction in one segment

Indeed. The segment breaks often fall on natural breaks in the text, but not always. We can’t predict how a translator might handle this, so it needs to be done in the client. @karl_lew, perhaps we could configure the playback to add a gap at the end of the segment only if it ends with punctuation?

@SarathW1

Is it “Three and Thirty” or “Thirty and three” or “Thirty three”?

Well, this is an interesting one. I notice that I had not been consistent, so I have fixed that now.

The Pali is tidiva, literally the “triple deity”. Ven Bodhi has “triple heaven”. But it is really just a poetic abbreviated form, probably archaic, for the tavatimsa, or “Gods of the Thirty Three”. In fact, the origin of this lies in the very ancient conception of the godhead as a trinity. As time went on, the “three” gods were multiplied to a “super-three”, i.e. “Thirty Three”.

So literally it would be the “Gods of the Three”. But since it is a simple synonym of Tavatimsa, I use “Gods of the Three and Thirty”, lending an archaic and poetic flavor to the translation.

@SarathW1

Is it possible to have an alternate word for them?

It’s hard!

@karl_lew

These are actually SuttaCentral Voice problems, not SuttaCentral problems

Actually no, it seems we have a problem in processing the lists correctly. Check

https://staging.suttacentral.net/dn28/en/sujato

And also

https://staging.suttacentral.net/an4.161/en/sujato

@sabbamitta

this should also be the case for the last paragraph

Fixed!

[Snowbird]

@sujato

No, they are current. Where a translator wishes to indicate that terms have been added, we represent that. I don’t recommend it as a practice, but t is possible to do.

I’m not trying to argue, but how in the world is someone supposed to guess that is the meaning of the gray text? The standard for that, as I know, is square brackets. I agree it’s not beautiful. But it seems either the meaning should be clear or the indication shouldn’t be there at all. Just my $.02

[sujato]

@Snowbird

how in the world is someone supposed to guess that is the meaning of the gray text?

They are not supposed to guess. The tooltip tells you what it means. Does it not work for you?

@karl_lew

These are actually SuttaCentral Voice problems, not SuttaCentral problems

@sujato

Actually no, it seems we have a problem in processing the lists correctly

Oops, i was wrong and you were right; at least, mostly. There is a problem, but it is in the CSS. Chrome and FF handle this case differently. We’ll have to figure out some fix.

[Snowbird]

@sujato

They are not supposed to guess. The tooltip tells you what it means. Does it not work for you?

Oh, they don’t, actually. I was going to suggest using tool tips.

Name	Firefox
Version	64.0.2
Build ID	20190108160530

Windows 10, no adblocker
Doesn’t work on chrome either.

[sujato]

Oh, yes, it looks like you have to have the “textual information” on to see the tooltips, it should be on by default. maybe the styling should only be apparent when activated, too?

[Sumano]

I noticed in MN 87, paragraph 4:

Then Queen Mallikā addressed the brahmin Nāḷijaṅgha: “Please, brahmin, go to the Buddha, and in my name bow with your head to his feet. Ask him if he is healthy and well, nimble, strong, and living comfortably. And then say: ‘Sir, did the Buddha made this statement: “Our loved ones are a source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress”?’

Seems like made is the incorrect verb tense.

[sujato]

@Sumano

Seems like made is the incorrect verb tense.

Indeed, thanks, fixed now.

[calvin_sad]

On AN 6.63 (penetrative),
“Cetayitvā kammaṃ karoti” is translated as “For after making a choice one acts”, is a bit unusual for “cetana” usually translated as “intention”