Question for Pali-knowers re: Kumāra Bhikkhu's translations

Hey, thanks for replying. Good point. :ok_hand: I don’t disagree with this per se. In a way being attached to things will lead to volitions towards those things.

However, I take it that “consciousness follows after that rapture and bliss” essentially describes the fetter of rūparāgo, i.e. the desire for experiencing the jhana states. It reads to me more like a general tendency, one that comes back after emerging from jhanas. I don’t think it describes a specific thing we do while in jhana.

To me it’s a bit awkward to read the jhanas in this sutta as a literal temperal sequence. (That is, entering first jhana, then “consciousness follows after that rapture and bliss [of fist jhana]”, then second jhana, then “consciousness follows after that rapture and bliss [of second jhana]”, then third jhana, etc.) Reason I find that awkward is that after “consciousness follows after that rapture and bliss [of second jhana]” the sutta still continues with the third jhana. It doesn’t make much sense that if the mind “follows” (or “is stuck to”) the rapture and bliss of the second jhana while in the second jhana, it then lets go of the rapture and enters the third jhana. Same idea with the following jhanas. So the sutta instead seems to describe the general attachments that should be overcome. So that the jhanas and these attachment are not sequential but more general.

And that is how in my opinion it works in many suttas: what is described after the jhana doesn’t necessarily occur while you’re in it. (Although admittedly in some suttas it’s less clear than others.) There’s one example in MN122 where after fourth jhana the practitioner is said to be thinking and walking. But everybody agrees that thinking (however we interpret vitakka) ceases in second jhana, so this passage is easier interpreted with the thinking (and walking) happening after jhana. (As explained here by Ven. Brahmali.)

Gramatically I belief that also works fine, but I won’t go into details of that now, even though that linguistics is what ASearcher actually asked about… :face_with_peeking_eye: (I hope this will do for now.)

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