Questions about Bodhisattvas in Theravada Buddhism

The Watercooler
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I’m confused about the concept of Bodhisattas/Bodhisattvas in Theravada Buddhism. Some texts I’ve read say that to become a Bodhisattva you must make a verbal vow in the presence of a living Buddha and receive a prediction from him that you will become a Buddha, with the implication being that this means you can’t become a Bodhisattva since there is no living Buddha. But others have said that anyone who vows to become a Buddha in the future is a Bodhisattva. I’ve also seen references to the difference between Aniyata Bodhisattvas, who haven’t made a vow in the presence of a living Buddha or have not received a prediction (and are therefore not certain of achieving Buddhahood), and Niyata Bodhisattvas who have made a verbal vow and received a prediction from a living Buddha (and are therefore certain to become a Buddha in the future). It is also my understanding that there are in Theravada countries many monks and laypeople who are considered Bodhisattvas.

So my main question is which view is the correct one according to Theravada Buddhism? Another question I have is this: If the latter view, with its distinction between aniyata and niyata bodhisattvas is correct, is it also required to make a mental vow to become a Buddha in the presence of a living Buddha or could someone do so today and be considered a Bodhisattva (if they are genuine)?

I know that the EBTs don’t reference a Bodhisattva path that you can follow, and that this is a latter development.

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I am way too diehard EBT to have an opinion on this topic.

However, this past discussion might be helpful in your understanding.

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Yes, @CynicFrey, all of those types of Bodhisattas, the declarations at the feet of a living Buddha, etc. are all found in the commentaries. (Maybe the Bv and Cp, but for sure not in the first 4 nikayas and the first 9 books of the KN).

Folks here may know the answer, but it’s not the domain of this forum exactly.

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Dīpaṃkara’s complete absence
from the Pāli sutta literature makes it virtually certain that traditions concerning this buddha did not gain currency until several centuries after Śākyamuni Buddha’s death.

J. Nattier in the Encyclopedia of Buddhism 2004, p230

But the Dīpaṃkara story is very widely attested in later Pāli and early Chinese texts, including at EĀ 20.3 and EĀ 43.2, so it must have been a common story in the early Saṅgha.

This story, of Gautama receiving a prediction of future Buddhahood, was told as an archetype for the progress of a Bodhisattva, and so came to be seen as a requirement for all Bodhisattvas: you cannot become a Buddha without it. This is widely agreed on by the different schools of Buddhism (There’s an Abhidharma, theoretical reason for this as well, involving valid objects of cognition, but it’s a bit esoteric!)

According to the Mahāvibhāṣā, T 1545, the Divyāvadāna and the Mahāvastu (and others?) Gautama’s initial vow to become a Buddha took place long before his meeting with Dīpaṃkara. So this period came to be called the aniyata bodhisattva stage, and after getting a prediction from a Buddha is the niyata stage. Both are real Bodhisattvas, just one is a preceding stage (and a bit uncertain! What percent of aniyata bodhisattvas become niyata is a matter of some debate. But every school agrees that a niyata bodhisattva will become a Buddha eventually)

For more of this history, see Bhante Analayo’s Genesis of the Bodhisattva Ideal

This need for a prediction by a Buddha to become a confirmed Bodhisattva was actually one of the drivers behind the Early Mahāyānists seeking to meet a Buddha in a meditative vision. If you can meet a Buddha in a vision, the thinking goes, they can give you the prediction immediately! No need to wait eons to encounter a Buddha in the flesh!

You can read more about that history in Bhante Analayo’s “Meeting Buddhas Now”

So, that shows how seriously the early Mahāyānists also took this requirement.

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So according to the Theravada tradition, if I decided today to make a sincere vow for the first time to become a Buddha in the future I would be considered an aniyata Bodhisattva, and wouldn’t become a confirmed Bodhisattva until I meet a living Buddha (if I make it that far)?

I’ve also never heard of the idea of receiving a prediction from a Buddha in Mahayana as a requirement, although I am a lot less familiar with their views. Is this a common belief in modern Mahayana (Chan/Zen for example)?

Also, thanks for providing those articles, I will definitely give them a read!

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Until you meet them and make a sincere offering to them with a clear mind with the intention of becoming a Buddha like them and they give you the prediction. Yes :sweat_smile: A tall order!

I believe that eventually the later bhūmi model of Bodhisattva progression became normative in the Mahāyāna schools.

In the bhūmi retelling of the story, when Sumedha encountered the Buddha and laid himself down in the mud, he mentally realized emptiness and it was this realization of emptiness that made him a confirmed Bodhisattva. The encounter with and the outward, verbal prediction from, the Buddha Dīpaṃkara was just a performance for the sake of the disciples watching, and wasn’t actually necessary.

So this is the current Mahāyāna view on it, if I understand correctly. Just make the vow and realize emptiness and that’s all the confirmation you need.

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I wonder why I rarely see the distinction between Aniyata and Niyata Bodhisattas explained by Theravada teachers (at least in the west)? Although to be fair, the ones I regularly listen to rarely, if ever, even discuss the concept of Bodhisattvas at all, which I understand as the Buddha taught the arahant path which is appropriate for 99.9% of people.

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It’s a very commentarial thing. And most western teachers don’t focus on the commentaries. And, as you say, most westerners in Theravada aren’t even thinking about a Bodhisatta path (my observation).

This is very different from, say, Sri Lanka where it is much more common place. The religious education of children is very focused on the Jataka stories. And most people’s religious education stops after childhood. So over generations there has come to be the idea that this “bodhisatta path” is the best thing to aspire towards. And in general the commentaries are given much, much greater weight.

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Hi

I’ve read in the book ‘Chronicles of the Buddha’ which is based on Buddhavamsa that the current Shakyamuni Buddha was fulfilling the paramis primarily mentally for 16 Asankheyya (incalculable periods) before receiving confirmation as ascetic Sumedha from Buddha Dipankara. After receiving the confirmation the Bodhisatta fulfilled the paramis verbally and physically as well for 4 Asankheyyas and a hundred thousand eons. In total this adds to 20 Asankheyyas and a hundred thousand eons. We can see from this that even to receive confirmation from a Buddha the person has to have worked very hard to become spiritually very mature.

When ascetic Sumedha received confirmation there were many other beings who, looking at the glory of Buddha Dipankara, too wished to become a Buddha in the future. However, except Sumedha, none of the beings there had the 8 prequisite conditions to receive such confirmation from a Buddha. One of the prerequisites is that the person aspiring to become a Buddha must have the potential to become an Arahant after hearing a short discourse (ughatitannu) from a Buddha. Ascetic Sumedha consciously took a step back and decided to forgo his own enlightenment that day and chose to strive to become a Sammasambuddha instead. As numerous difficult and rare conditions have to come together for a person to become a Bodhisatta in my opinion it is practically impossible for most beings to become a Bodhisatta and perhaps this is why the arising of Buddhas is very rare.

Buddha Dipankara arose 4 incalculable and a Hundred thousand world cycles ago. As i’ve read i think this equates to 4× 10^147 plus 100,000 world cycles (Big bangs). During this unimaginably long period only 12 to 13 world cycles were Buddha eons where only 28 Buddhas arose. So even in terms of probability it is near impossible for a being to become a Buddha. I think this low probability is also true for becoming a Bodhisatta.

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Instead of all of that, why not just take refuge in the Buddha, fulfill the Noble Eightfold Path and become an arahant? It seems more straightforward, faster and much more likely!

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Yes waiting for a Buddha’s dispensation is the easiest and quickest route to attain enlightenment for most beings. Many beings who witnessed ascetic Sumedha’s confirmation were elated and aspired to attain enlightenment in the future. They thought that even though we might not be able to attain enlightenment in Buddha Dipankara’s dispensation we will try and attain the paths and fruits when Buddha Gotama arises.

However you could say that beings who become Bodhisattas are superhuman and all think alike to each other but differently to regular beings when it comes to their own enlightenment. Even though they are aware that they could easily attain enlightenment under a Buddha’s dispensation they are not content with just that. They think - ‘What use is it to attain enlightenment by myself. I will work to become a Sammasambuddha and rescue countless beings who are caught in the cycle of repeated birth and death.’

I’ve heard of this past incident from various dhamma talks by Thervada monks so i assume this might be in the commentary-

20 incalculables and a hundred thousand eons ago a youth and his mother were travelling in the ocean by ship. They had a shipwreck and the youth made a strong determination to save his mother’s life. He carried her on his back and having chosen a direction swam continuously for seven days and reached dry land. A non-returner Brahma deity witnessed this incident and thought ‘only brave and energetic person like this youth can become a Buddha in this world. I will try and mentally suggest this youth to become a Buddha in the future.’ The Brahma influenced both the youth and his mother with the thought that the youth should work to become a Buddha. The mother then said to her son-’ you’ve done the impossible by swimming for 7 days and rescuing your mother from certain death. Only brave and energetic people like you can become a Buddha. Why don’t you become a Buddha and rescue beings who are drowning in the ocean of suffering.’

The youth also said- 'it’s quite interesting you should say that mother. I too was thinking the same thing. I will certainly become a Buddha .'That brave and energetic youth went on to become Buddha Gotama in this current world cycle.

It seems to me that even at that early stage of his Bodhisatta career he was already almost superhuman and because of his great spiritual potential he got set on a different path to most beings. I believe because of their great personal qualities beings who are destined to become a Buddha just have a different spiritual trajectory.

For sure it is not easy to fathom the mentality of such superior category of beings.

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Just for context, I’m of the school of thought that the ye sotavanto pamuñcantu saddhaṁ from SN 6.1 is a thinly-veiled juxtaposition of the newly revealed Buddha’s teaching with traditional, faith-based paths whose revelations are only fulfilled postmortem (or, even, perhaps only after many lives). So I find the introduction of such a dynamic at the most fundamental level of the Dhamma puzzling.

My question, then, is whether any of the classical sources ever made much of the (to my eyes glaringly obvious) tension between this apparent return to a path that takes eons and the idea of the buddhadhamma as an akāliko diṭṭhevadhammo?

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Well, that’s the tension, yeah. The Theravādins doubtless made much of this to discourage people away from the Bodhisattva Path (as you can see in the replies above). Of course some people are stubborn contrarians and that makes them cling to their aspiration for Buddhahood all the tighter :laughing: Many classical Mahāyāna Sūtrās talk about how frightful the Bodhisattva path is and how it’s not for the faint of heart etc. Of course, all those warnings only served to make it all the more aspirational :laughing:

And the natural desire for a faster path to Buddhahood was, as I already mentioned above, the motivation behind meditations to meet Buddhas in visions and later for a clear bhūmi model of Bodhisattva progress that need not necessarily take eons. And in the early medieval period, of course, this was also the motivation behind the Vajrayāna Tantric practices which promise an even faster, if dangerous, “esoteric” path to Buddhahood. Once again, all the sutras talking about how secret and dangerous this path was only served to make it all the more popular :laughing:

So, this tension is, in a way, the driving force behind much of Buddhist history and is perhaps one of the defining tensions of the religion: this tension between a timeless truth, apparent here and now, which nonetheless can take lifetimes to realize… Welcome to Buddhism! :sweat_smile:

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Even the stream enterer can go up to 7 lifetimes before ending rebirth.

Being timeless I see it as the principle of dhamma, 3 universal characteristics work all the time.

Being seen here and now still needs the conditions to be cultivated to get to be able to see the dhamma here and now, like right view, morality, meditation etc.

For the Bodhisatta, it’s just that the mind needs a long time to be cultivated to be able to fulfill the conditions to become a fully enlightened Buddha, a being who has higher wisdom than even Sariputta, who has more supernormal powers than Mogallana, who can teach skillfully etc. Clearly, the conditions are of various sort, like doing all the side quest in a video game instead of the main quest. And Bodhisattas have to delay the main quest until all the side quests are done, and just so happens that the main quest time is much shorter than the side quests requires, but the rewards from the side quests are the special powers of a fully enlightened Buddha.

Just that it’s only for one lifetime that the Buddhas can do their work. So to save as many beings as possible, best to become a Buddha when the human lifespan is like 100,000 years old. But of course, there’s a finite amount of beings being directly liberated due to any Buddha, but predicting the next Buddha, inspiring some to go the Bodhisatta path, thereby generating the next Buddhas, that work continue on indefinitely, thus indirectly, the Buddhas work on liberating “countless” beings is actually in generating future Buddhas. And part of it is not to teach to the Bodhisattas teachings which can lead them to immediate enlightenment.

If Buddhas are totally opposed to the Bodhisattas path, then they would prioritise to get the aspiring Bodhisattas to become arahants. But 20+ Buddhas our Bodhisatta had meet since the prediction and he still managed to become our Buddha.

Personally, it’s ultimately the fact that all these lifetimes spent cultivating is only for one glorious final life as a Buddha and no more doesn’t seem so worth the effort to me, when there’s no difference after death between Buddha and arahants. Rebirth has ended for them.

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Theravādin sources actively discouraging from the bodhisatta path? No, really? I know there’s a text purported to be of a Mahāyāna tradition which questions it quite strongly.
(99+) Doctrinal Dispute in the Earliest Phase of Chinese Buddhism—Anti-Mahāyāna Polemics in the Scripture on the Fifty Contemplations https://share.google/3bHSDSQweYpHuk76D
But I don’t know of any Theravādin texts that do that.

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Yeah, I don’t know of a normative statement in the Theravāda commentaries explicitly discouraging it. That’s an inference on my part given their rather daunting descriptive statements.

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