Resting mind state of Sotapanna compared to jhana

The Watercooler
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Good evening everyone,

I have been reading from this forum for the past month or two, and it has been truly a honor to find such a well intentioned and thoughtful community. This is a question that has been on my mind for a while.

I was wondering if there was any sort of comparison to be made between these two things. When looking at the factors that make up the experience of self in the normal mind, the biggest thing that plays a role in that experience from my view is sensual desire. The pull of the sensory perceptions are very strong and seem to play a big role in the role of fabricating this self. So once someone has released the mind to the state of sotapanna, wouldn’t the resting state of their mind incline to jhanas? And if not actual jhana, it seems like the resting state of mind for a sotapanna would at least be very close to it.

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The sotāpanna is free from 3 lower fetters but still have the higher fetters. They’ve overcome doubt (the fifth hindrance) but still have sensual desires. Those are only overcome at the anāgāmī level.

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No. Two type of sotapanna or higher. SN 55.40

Neverthless, Nandiya, as to how a noble disciple lives negligently and how they live diligently,

…

And how does a noble disciple live negligently?

Firstly, a noble disciple has unshakable confidence in the Buddha, dhamma, sangha.

they have the ethical conduct loved by the noble ones … leading to samadhi.

They’re content with that confidence, and don’t make a further effort for solitude by day or retreat by night.

…

And how does a noble disciple live diligently?

Firstly, a noble disciple has unshakable confidence in the Buddha, dhamma, sangha.

they have the ethical conduct loved by the noble ones … leading to samadhi.

But they’re not content with that confidence, and make a further effort for solitude by day and retreat by night.

…

When the mind is immersed in samādhi, principles become clear.

Because dhamma have become clear, they’re reckoned to live diligently.

So diligent has 4 factors of stream enterer and train hard for jhana day and night.

non diligent, just has 4 factors of stream, no training for jhana.

The sotāpanna is free from 5 lower fetters

i think this is incorrect per sutta. Only 3 low fetters. Only anagami and above are free of 5 lower fetters. DN 6

Firstly, Mahāli, with the ending of three fetters a mendicant is a stream-enterer, not liable to be reborn in the underworld, destined for awakening.

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I thought a stream enterer eliminates 3 lower fetters and an anagami eliminates 5 lower fetters.

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Thanks! :sweat_smile: Now fixed :grin:

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