Returning to Our Core Values - A Response to the Online Critique of “The First Free Women”

Thank you so much, Venerable @Anandabodhi, for having the courage to say these words, especially in place that at times has been fiercely critical of some of your actions. It’s very constructive. Instead of just digging ever deeper trenches or playing to the gallery, you have acted with integrity.

It is my experience that the majority of users on this site are very forgiving. Just check out the number of likes on your post! Once an important matter of principle has been settled, it only makes sense to move on. I don’t think you have anything to fear from your involvement here, quite the contrary.

To my mind, we all need to be as compassionate and forgiving as we possibly can. The world is almost always too harsh, always judging people instead of trying to understand the underlying issues. I suspect much of this comes from the Christian values of the Western world, where individual responsibility is enshrined as a fundamental cultural value. But this is a far cry from the Buddhist outlook. Our will and choices are profoundly conditioned. We are trapped by our past and by our own personalities. Yes, we take responsibility as far as we can, but our very ability to do so is itself deeply conditioned.

So in the Buddhist world view it makes sense to be very forgiving. Yet this does not mean we should not engage on the side of what is right. We should. In fact, when we understand the nature of conditioning, it becomes obvious that we need to engage in discussion and to point out problems. And the converse is equally true: we need to listen. Although it may be the case that at times there is no underlying truth to be discovered (I prefer “no truth” to “your truth/my truth”), it is also the case that sometimes there is, especially so on the Buddhist spiritual path. Open and empathetic discussion, with a commitment to always forgive, is what we all need to grow in these teachings.

Thank you, Ayya, for taking part in a kind, humble, and meaningful way. And thanks everyone for your constructive contributions.

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Dear Venerable @anandabodhi,

Your response here is by far one of the most inspiring examples of monastic coduct I have seen. Yes, it is always good to see people being good and kind, but when you see someone make a mistake and then be so incredibly courageous to admit they made a mistake so publicly and apologise - that truly is inspiring. It gives us all a bit more courage to own our mistakes.

Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

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I’ve been following this “story” for quite some time and was amazed to see how it evolved into a big thing among lay people and monastic alike!

Such a simple solution for the core of the problem: just acknowledge the mistake of labelling and promoting the book as translation and we could avoid all the “drama” and frictions and hurting feelings among people.

At least now Ayya @Anandabodhi had the courage to make this clarification. Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!
Hopefully everyone can move on from here.

I prefer to remember only the kind and polite dialog when the “story began”:

"Sujato to AnandaBodhi

Dear Ayya, I cannot say how much I appreciate your apology. I just want to dwell here a little bit, because it is such a rare thing in the world, and especially in the online world of battling egos. You are a senior and respected teacher and practitioner, yet without hesitation you straightforwardly apologize, showing no ego or pride. I bow to you! !:pray:
…But this is also why I am so sorry that, rather than simply celebrating a valued contribution, we have to get caught up in this unnecessary bother.
…The problem isn’t that it might be mistaken for a “literal translation” but that it is explicitly being sold as a translation when it is no such thing."


Sujato to Matty Weingast

Thanks for getting in contact with us. I’m glad that we share the perspective on what it is and what it isn’t, namely a translation.

My only concern would be that I would ask respectfully that you contact your publisher and ask them to make it clear in the promotion and cataloguing data that it must not be registered as a translation.

Creative re-imagination is essential for the lifeblood of any tradition. Here in Sydney we’re organizing a Buddhist poetry event to bring the hidden poets out of the woodwork! We just need to be clear what is what, that’s all."


"Ayya Sudhamma

No doubt my excellent bhikkhuni friends from Aloka Vihara are careful to make the distinction between actual translations of the scripture and Weingast’s book of poetry inspired by the scripture & related commentarial stories."

:pray: :pray: :pray:

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@Anandabodhi to acknowledge a mistake and take personal responsibility for a specific action/resultant is always a great display of developed maturity and self honesty.

However.

I would like to point out that this “mistake” is so minor(if it is even one at all) and is truly of no real moral consequence in any sense.

You are not responsible for people feeling threatened by a book. That is ludicrous and harkens back to 16/17th century Europe where people lost their minds over books/translations/re-interpretations.

There are so many published books that are sold and marketed as translations of Pali texts, particularly the Dhammapada, which take very broad liberties that only tangentially represent the root text, if at all.

Take it easy.

Humans are humans at the end of the day.

Pitch fork mobs have modernize, yet the motives and emotions behind them seem to remain unchanged.

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Part of a sincere apology is making an effort to correct the harm that has been done by the actions. In a followup letter to the publisher on 15 Jan 2021, signed by several members of this forum, the following requests for action were given. (emphasis added)

First, any references to the book as a translation should be removed. This includes endorsement blurbs. The use of any reference to the work being a translation of any kind is incorrect. Even the use of “adaptation” or “re-imagining” wrongly implies that there is some essential core remaining of the Therigatha’s poems represented in this new and original work.

In “A Brief Note” the author describes his poems as either “variations on a classic tune” or closely resembling the originals, “with shifts here and there”. This leaves the average reader with the impression that there are just melodic changes or shifts in metaphor from the (Pali) Therīgāthā‘s enlightenment poems. However, there are deviations from the original throughout that are major and significant. The Introduction and Brief Note should be rewritten to give unmistakable clarity that these poems contain content and implications not in the Therīgāthā and are not to be relied upon as being close to the original.

Second, re-title the poems without the Theri’s Pali names. The internet is filling up with people mistakenly attributing Mr. Weingast’s words to specific enlightened nuns. The authors of the misattributions should then be contacted with the correct information.

Third, address Shambhala’s company policy regarding user reviews, including staff disclosures and the filtering of negative reviews between platforms. Currently, the Shambhala.com website embeds only four and five star user reviews from GoodReads.com. This practice should be stated explicitly on the website so that users know that they need to go elsewhere for a balanced representation.

Shambhala staff also should be required to disclose their affiliation with the company in their reviews. Not doing so, as is the case with your own review on GoodReads, is likely a violation of the terms of service.

As well, Shambhala has the responsibility to ensure that reader’s reviews from the first edition are not linked to the new edition.

Fourth, individually contact all libraries and alert them to the needed cataloging changes. According to WorldCat, over 100 libraries have shelved this book side by side with translations of the Therigatha. While some librarians may by chance find out about the changes through the Library of Congress, etc., most will not.

No response from the publisher was made.

For #1, we will have to wait and see what has changed in the content of the book. However, we do know that on the publishers page for the new edition, they have kept an endorsement from Jack Kornfield calling the book a translation. While some may say this is a minor thing, many of us do not.

It seems that #2 is not going to happen. Removing the Theri’s names would have been the most honest and simplest thing to do to make it clear that they were not their words.

Regarding #3, Nikko Odiseso has updated his review of the original publication on Goodreads to state that he works for Shambhala Publications. He is actually the president, but close enough! As far as SP having a policy so all employees disclose their affiliations, that’s not known because they never responded to the letter.

The original SP book page (which has now been deleted and doesn’t forward to the new book page) headed the reviews pulled from GoodReads as “Reader Reviews.” The current page heads that section as “Selected Revews.” That’s certainly an improvement. But it doesn’t disclose that it is only showing positive reviews. (from what I can tell, 4 or 5 stars). Of course the current top review refers to “this translation of the Therigatha.” Clearly the efforts of the publisher to make it clear that this is not a translation have failed.

Because of GoodRead policies, it is not possible to remove the original book page. The new book page is linked to the old book page because they are both books by Mr. Weingast. Also, nothing to be done about that.

With #4, since they haven’t written back, there is no way to know what they have done regarding informing libraries and offering to replace the book. For me personally, this is one of the easiest and most concrete things that those associated with the book could do to show that they truly believe that their actions were wrong and wish to undo any harm.

I’ll note that earlier in the thread Bhante @Sujato mentioned some other actions that he hopes those connected to the book will take to show that they wish to undo any harm caused by the misrepresentation of the book.

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The dhamma is timeless. This book in question is ephemeral.

The potential for this book to spark inspiration or even act as the starting point for a young person whom stumbles upon it to inquire further into the core Pali language teachings resoundingly negates these concerns as rather trivial points of contention.
{*see edit}

Anyone who doesn’t want to participate in the conversation is welcome not to. As well, if you don’t want this or any other thread to appear in the list of new posts, you can easily adjust your following options.

As well, ad hominem attacks are not permitted according to the TOS.

I will also add that for those who don’t know about the reach and impact of the book, it could be that you don’t run in the circles where the book has taken hold. In fact, it was more than nine months after publication that many people on the forum even knew of the book. Guess we don’t read Tricycle.

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Thank you, Bhante Akaliko, I appreciate your efforts and intentions towards reconciliation and also hope that we can move toward resolution and harmony in the sangha.

Thank you. I welcome your apology too and of course, forgive you. I hope you will also forgive me.

Yes!
Wishing you all the very best too.

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As a footnote to Lokantara’s post, I’ll add that for those who wish to read the Therigatha in English, there is Charles Hallisey’s excellent translation, Caroline Augusta Foley Rhys-David’s older charming translation, and for those who like to read on-line, Bhante Sujato’s translation right here at this website.
Perhaps it’s time we all move on.

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The first link, “returning to our core values", now seems broken.

From Archive.org:

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