Sakka, Indra and Brahma images

It seems no early Buddhist texts indicate clearly that Indra and Brahma are the supporters of the Buddha and his followers. I could be wrong? Does anyone give some textual information about this?

More is explained in the book of Bhikkhu I provided link. The first chapter is about this sutta. Comparison. He said that in Mahavastu Brahma and Indra appears. But most other Vinayas Brahmā only. It might be a evolution in art.

In his words.

image

Bhikkhu Study

At the end of this pdf there is these two art. Very nice

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For his explanation of the last art.

Bhikkhu Study

The only thing Bhikkhu Analayo didn’t explain is why there is two other gods behind each god. According to Agama and Nikaya and Mahavastu Buddha was visited by 4 gods at Birth. If that is true. Then this must be Sakra , Indra and Brahma , Saraswati.

Sakra is Lord of Trāyastriṃśa

But it’s with Indra.

That’s why Sakka devānaṃ inda

Brahma has a wife called Saraswati

That’s I think the veneration of Buddha is represented by 4 gods. And the Pali story say sakko ca devānamindo brahmā ca sahampati

Exactly 4 gods.

Although it seems two gods are talking to each other. But I give my reason for accepting this because Indra is more important. He is the one that talks.

That’s why in Pali it say

Na kho, devānaminda

Without mentioning Sakka. But before he does say “Atha kho sakko devānamindo”

That’s because it’s dual gods.

But after Brahma says devānamindo. Which is Indra. As he is more important he probably is addressed him back.

But notice in Pali there is not written Brahma Sahampati responded. That’s the only part missing. (?)

Saraswati as the wife of Brahma. Lives in Brahmaloka with Brahma and Gayatri.

Saraswati: She is a part of the trinity (Tridevi) of Saraswati, Lakshmi, and Parvati.

Lakshmi is at Buddhist Stupas.

The word Saraswati appears both as a reference to a river and as a significant deity in the Rigveda.

Devi Saraswati is also regarded as a river goddess in early texts. Saraswati river is a symbol of purity.

  • As Savitri, She is the personification of purity, consort of Lord Brahma

Buddha mentions Savitri

“Sāvitrī the glory of Vedic hymns”-Buddha

And he ask for Gayatri mantra in suttanipata. He asked for The Gayatri metre that has twenty−four syllables

The 4 gods are also in Sanchi Stupa

(All above information from Wikipedia and some of my own notes of study)

The only thing Bhikkhu Analayo didn’t explain is why there is two other gods behind each god. According to Agama and Nikaya and Mahavastu Buddha was visited by 4 gods at Birth. If that is true. Then this must be Sakra , Indra and Brahma , Saraswati.

Sakra is Lord of Trāyastriṃśa

But it’s with Indra.

That’s why Sakka devānaṃ inda

Brahma has a wife called Saraswati

That’s I think the veneration of Buddha is represented by 4 gods. And the Pali story say sakko ca devānamindo brahmā ca sahampati

Exactly 4 gods.

Although it seems two gods are talking to each other. But I give my reason for accepting this because Indra is more important. He is the one that talks.

That’s why in Pali it say

Na kho, devānaminda

Without mentioning Sakka. But before he does say “Atha kho sakko devānamindo”

That’s because it’s dual gods.

But after Brahma says devānamindo. Which is Indra. As he is more important he probably is addressed him back.

But notice in Pali there is not written Brahma Sahampati responded. That’s the only part missing. (?)

Saraswati as the wife of Brahma. Lives in Brahmaloka with Brahma and Gayatri.

Saraswati: She is a part of the trinity (Tridevi) of Saraswati, Lakshmi, and Parvati.

Lakshmi is at Buddhist Stupas.

The word Saraswati appears both as a reference to a river and as a significant deity in the Rigveda.

Devi Saraswati is also regarded as a river goddess in early texts. Saraswati river is a symbol of purity.

  • As Savitri, She is the personification of purity, consort of Lord Brahma

Buddha mentions Savitri

“Sāvitrī the glory of Vedic hymns”-Buddha

And he ask for Gayatri mantra in suttanipata. He asked for The Gayatri metre that has twenty−four syllables

The 4 gods are also in Sanchi Stupa

Descent of the Buddha from the Trayastrimsa Heaven at Sankissa.[1]

Trāyastriṃśa is ruled by Śakra

In the following is all the Lakshmi. ( I’m sorry I don’t know exactly where I found them. One is from Wikipedia. The other I remember is Ghandhari)

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On the left pillar at stupa. On the top.

image

Ghandhari

Bharhut stupa

Don’t remember. But it’s at stupa also.

Maybe this was part of sramana movement

Wikipedia says Oldest idol of Saraswati dating back to 132 CE.

Saraswati is also revered in Jainism as Goddess of knowledge and regarded as source of all learning. Saraswati is depicted in standing posture with 4 hands, one holding text, other holding a rosary and two hands holding Veena. Saraswati is seated on lotus with peacock as her vehicle.[36]Saraswati is also regarded as responsible for dissemination of tirthankars sermon.[37] The earliest sculpture of Saraswati in any religious tradition is the Mathura Jain Saraswati from Kankali Tila dating 132 CE.[38]

“Saraswati is one of the few important goddesses in the Vedas who have retained their significance to the present day. Literary evidence suggests that right from the ancient times down to the modern, she is perceived in three major roles, as a river, as Vak (speech), and as a goddess.”

“ She is dressed in white and blue garments, reminiscent of her form as a river. Like Lakshmi and unlike Durga and Kali, she does not carry any arms or weapons.”

“ Another particular association with rivers is the imagery of crossing from the world of ignorance or bondage to the far shore, which represents the world of enlightenment or freedom. ”

Read more here.

In Pali texts Sarassatī is only ever used as the same of a river.

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The one of sutta Nipata is translated as Sāvitrī . In Pali sāvittiṃ.

Buddha
If you say you brahmin are, but call me none,
then of you I ask the chant of Sāvitrī,
consisting of three lines
in four and twenty syllables.

Here full sutta. But It’s Gayatri chant.

This river is only few time in suttacentral

Search Sāvitrī. And Wikipedia Sāvitrī river.

Buddha
The fire-oblation is the foremost of sacrifices;
The Sāvitrī is the foremost of poetic styles;
A king is the foremost of humans;
The ocean is the foremost of rivers.

The moon is the foremost of heavenly bodies;
The sun the foremost of fires;
But for those wishing to do good,
An offering to the Saṅgha is foremost.

When the Buddha had expressed his appreciation to Keṇiya with these verses, he got up from his seat and left.

https://suttacentral.net/snp3.7/en/mills-sujato

There seems to a typo here. In Sutta they have put the name associated with the goddess. That means maybe Buddha mentioned the goddess name in place of the river. But names as what you mentioned. Is the river itself. And like the Pali suttas in Nipata is the goddess name itself.

Sarassatī:
Sarassatī is evidently the Sanskrit Sarasvati mentioned in Vedic and Brahmanical literature. According to the Brāhmaṇas, the Kāvyamīmāṁsa and Manu Saṁhitā, it formed the western boundary of the Brahmanical Madhyadeśa. According to the Milindapañho (p. 114) the Sarassatī issued forth from the Himavanta. It rises in the hills of Sirmur in the Himalayan range called the Sewalik and emerges into the plains at Ād Badri in Ambala. Like the Ganges, the river Sarassatī or Sarasvatī is considered as sacred by the Hindus

Search the river. Two different names.

Like the website said it’s used as simile to crossing ignorance. A lot reason for it being sramana goddess choice. As seen in stupas pictures. Lakshmi is also connected to that river. That’s seen at stupas art 1 BCE. Probably a favorite of early Buddhism.

This ”Elder” is wishing to cross the river.

Oh, when will I cross the Ganges, Yamunā,
and Sarasvatī rivers, the Pātāla country,
and the dangerous Baḷavāmukha sea,
by psychic power, without hindrance? When will it be?

The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.

Another sutta this same Elder reached the goal

https://suttacentral.net/thag19.1/en/sujato

Lakshmi (/ˈlʌkʃmi/; Sanskrit:लक्ष्मी, IAST: lakṣhmī ) is the Goddess who leads to one’s goal (lakshya in Sanskrit), hence Her name Lakshmi. For mankind, 8 types of goals are necessary - Spiritual enlightenment, food, knowledge, resources, progeny, abundance, patience and success

Lakshmi is also an important deity in Jainism and found in Jain temples.[4][5] Lakshmi has also been a Goddess of abundance and fortune for Buddhists, and was represented on the oldest surviving stupas and cave temples of Buddhism.[6][7] In Buddhist sects of Tibet, Nepal and Southeast Asia, Lakshmi Goddess Vasudhara mirrors the characteristics and attributes of the Hindu GoddessLakshmi with minor iconographic differences.[8]

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The god in the sky on the right side is clearly a woman. The one on the left a man. Something interesting of the woman, it doesn’t have human legs like the man. So this indicates a half human and half animal goddess. The two other man on the floor with hands :pray:t4:. Might be the other two gods.

The others normal human worshiping the stupa. One behind the stupa is missing a head. Is probably at the Bodhi tree. :pray:t4:

From china, Thailand, Burma.

Brahma is the one with 3 faced.

Burmese

In Ghandhara work. The gods in the sky.
In total 5. In can be Sakka and Indra on the left and the Tridevi on the right. In Tridevi. Lakshmi is part of Tridevi. And even greek Buddhists king has buddhism and Lakshmi on coin.

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Monks and laypersons going around stupa. In the correct direction. Like the clock. Keeping stupa on their right side. Gods in Air. :pray:t4:

Gods

From around 180 BCE, Agathoclesand Pantaleon, probable successors to Demetrius I in the Paropamisadae, and the earliest Greek kings to issue Indian-standard square bilingual coins (in Brahmi), depicted the Buddhist lion together with the Hindu goddess Lakshmi.

Buddhist Lion and Lakshmi

Greetings UD :slight_smile:

This topic really seems to have run its course. We have given quite a bit of leeway to the exploration here, but it really seems more suitable for a Blog on the study theme, or perhaps an essay when your studies are more advanced :slight_smile:

As such, we are closing this topic. Please feel free to continue using the forum to discuss any EBT related issues.

Much metta

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