A question to experienced meditators:
Can using meditative Samadhi to help falling asleep or say, falling asleep in first Jhana, have negative health consequences?
Thanks, Thomas
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Forum members will not be able to speak from their experience with jhÄna, as per the TOS. But it would be impossible to fall asleep in jhÄna or to use jhÄna to go into sleep because even the first jhÄna, by definition, is free from the five hindrances, including dullness and drowsiness.
In my opinion, after laying down to go to bed, practicing metta until falling asleep is a wonderful way to ensure a good sleep, pleasant and peaceful dreams, and a good mind state when waking up in the morning.
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An11.15 talks about heart release by love and the benefits to sleep. I think this heart release is supposed to be on at all times if one is able.
āMendicants, you can expect eleven benefits when the heartās release by love has been cultivated, developed, and practiced, made a vehicle and a basis, kept up, consolidated, and properly implemented.
What eleven? You sleep at ease. You wake happily. You donāt have bad dreams. Humans love you. Non-humans love you. Deities protect you. You canāt be harmed by fire, poison, or blade. Your heart quickly enters immersion. Your face is clear and bright. You donāt feel lost when you die. If you donāt penetrate any higher, youāll be reborn in Brahma realm. You can expect eleven benefits when the heartās release by love has been cultivated, developed, and practiced, made a vehicle and a basis, kept up, consolidated, and properly implemented.ā
Jhana and sleep are polar opposites. In jhana, mindfulness is at a very high peak. In sleep there is practically no mindfulness at all.
I canāt imagine how. What kinds of harmful effects are you imagining?
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Here is an excerpt from
Muį¹į¹hassatisutta (AN 5.210)
PaƱcime, bhikkhave, Änisaį¹sÄ upaį¹į¹hitassatissa sampajÄnassa niddaį¹ okkamayato. Katame paƱca? Sukhaį¹ supati, sukhaį¹ paį¹ibujjhati, na pÄpakaį¹ supinaį¹ passati, devatÄ rakkhanti, asuci na muccati. Ime kho, bhikkhave, paƱca Änisaį¹sÄ upaį¹į¹hitassatissa sampajÄnassa niddaį¹ okkamayatoāti
Focus your attention to the words āSukhaį¹ supatiā
Good luck
What dangers do you have in mind?
ā¦ and what purpose is this for?
If your mind was alert you would probably end up in a WILD ( Wake induced lucid dream) - unless you can prevent thought arising for hours on end.
I donāt consider myself an experienced meditator btw - but Iāve been practicing dreaming all my life 
Okay, I see. Sorry, still a rookie.
Because of that story by Ajahn Brahm of a man that was pronounced death while really in deep Jhana I wonder if using this way to go to sleep could somehow alter your natural sleep patterns/functions or ability to go to sleep over time.
Thank you all !
It seems conceivable that it could have a negative effect. It seems pretty well documented that not getting the right proportion of REM and deep sleep has negative effects. JhÄna instead of sleep seems somewhat analogous. However, this is merely an analogy. I donāt really think we could draw any strong conclusion from this, since, as far as I know, we really have no idea about whatās going on in the brain and/or body during jhÄna.
Over the years, Iāve heard a lot of anecdotal evidence from bhikkhus and bhikkhunÄ«s that getting into deep meditation on a regular basis reduces the amount of sleep that you need, with no apparent negative side effects. As limited as this evidence is, it seems like itās probably the best evidence we have that jhÄna, at least to some degree, can be a substitute for sleep.
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In the dissolution process of the bodily elementsā¦ consciousness progressively relies on less elements [dissolution of the elements and three subsequent stages of creative energies are described]. After this comes the Clear Light Dharmakaya experience which can be had at death, falling asleep, fainting or in advanced tantric meditations.
(āThe Mahamudra: Eliminating the Darkness of Ignoranceā, Wang Chug Dor-je, Alexander Berzin, Beru Khyentze Rinpoche; p 142, emphasis added; commentary by Beru Khyentze Rinpoche on a 16th century C.E. text by the head of the largest sub-school of the four major Tibetan schools of Buddhism)
Although attention can be directed to the movement of breath, necessity in the movement of breath can also direct attention: there can come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.
Thereās a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages.
A presence of mind as the location of attention shifts in the body can lead to sleep, as well as to waking. Depends on what you need.