Sense pleasure and sense restraint

Discussion
1

Is there a relationship between these two sutta excerpts?

On the one hand we have “honourable recluses” who proclaim the following.

There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who maintain a doctrine of Nibbāna here and now and who, on five grounds, proclaim Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honourable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?

“Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin asserts the following doctrine or view: ‘When this self, good sir, furnished and supplied with the five strands of sense pleasures, revels in them—at this point the self attains supreme Nibbāna here and now.’ In this way some proclaim supreme Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. - DN 1.

In this context, access to the five strands of sensual pleasure is a type of Nibbana … not the right one, but definitely one … because the remaining four are the jhanas. Ie. the “five strands Nibbana” is grouped with the four jhanas.

Ignore the fact that we are constantly told not to “revel” in the senses. My gist here is that there is a way to experience the senses in a spiritually beneficial way. But how?

And so, is there a relationship with the above and the following?

"Endowed with four qualities, a monk is incapable of falling away and is right in the presence of Unbinding. Which four?

"There is the case where a monk is consummate in virtue, guards the doors to his sense faculties, knows moderation in eating, & is devoted to wakefulness. …

And how does a monk guard the doors to his sense faculties? There is the case where a monk, on seeing a form with the eye, does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the eye. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.

"On hearing a sound with the ear…

"On smelling an aroma with the nose…

"On tasting a flavor with the tongue…

"On feeling a tactile sensation with the body…

"On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the intellect. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the intellect. This is how a monk guards the doors to his sense faculties. - AN 4.37

Questions? Comments? Feedback?

2

I’m a little confused by your general question, but at the end of DN 1 the Buddha basically says that all these people who think they understand Nibbana have misapprehended (because they still presume the 5 aggregates or nibbana as self) and that he doesn’t misapprehend.

“This, bhikkhus, the Tathāgata understands. And he understands: ‘These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.’ He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tathāgata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging

Therefore it doesn’t really matter what all these people/brahmins believe what Nibbana is if they actually haven’t attained Nibbana, as the Buddha defined it. It’s like pointing at mixed silver saying you’ve attained pure gold, and then someone who actually has pure gold comes along and says “No that’s not actually pure gold, that’s white gold (gold mixed with silver), because actual pure gold has these following properties”.

That’s what I take that portion of DN to mean.

Do you mean eating food without giving rise to the 5 hindrances? Probably by focusing on the drawbacks rather than the gratification, before and during the event, from the moment it appears as a mental image, to forming the intention of acting on that mental image, and throughout the manifestation of action (eating).

“Bhikkhus, this is how Nanda guards the doors of the sense faculties: If he needs to look to the east, he does so after he has fully considered the matter and clearly comprehends it thus: ‘When I look to the east, bad unwholesome states of longing and dejection will not flow in upon me.’ If he needs to look to the west … to the north … to the south … to look up … to look down … to survey the intermediate directions, he does so after he has fully considered the matter and clearly comprehends it thus: ‘When I look to the intermediate directions, bad unwholesome states of longing and dejection will not flow in upon me.’ That is how Nanda guards the doors of the sense faculties.

…

This is how Nanda observes moderation in eating: Here, reflecting carefully, Nanda consumes food neither for amusement nor for intoxication nor for the sake of physical beauty and attractiveness, but only for the support and maintenance of this body, for avoiding harm, and for assisting the spiritual life, considering: ‘Thus I shall terminate the old feeling and not arouse a new feeling, and I shall be healthy and blameless and dwell at ease.’ That is how Nanda observes moderation in eating

…

This is Nanda’s mindfulness and clear comprehension: Nanda knows feelings as they arise, as they remain present, as they disappear; he knows perceptions as they arise, as they remain present, as they disappear; he knows thoughts as they arise, as they remain present, as they disappear. That is Nanda’s mindfulness and clear comprehension.

  • AN 8.9

Because of paying attention to what they should not and not paying attention to what they should, unarisen defilements arise and arisen defilements grow.

  • MN 2

See more of MN 2 for detail, as well as MN 149

1 Like