I’ve heard the Buddha allowed for some sort of athletic body building exercises, are there references to this somewhere or is this a mis-translation or a misunderstanding of the word kāyadaḷhibahulā?
In general, what is the vinaya point of view on monks who practice yoga, qigong, calisthenics etc. ?
Thanks Quetzalcoatl, yep I’m familiar with the sutta and I’ve read the link you provided. I’m keen to hear of any other references supporting exercise in robes. I know several monks practicing qigong, yoga, calisthenics etc, as a way to prevent turning into a complete …blob.
I think walking meditation accompanied with a wayfarer lifestyle is more than enough for maintaining the body, but the latter is currently not commonly practiced in the sangha.
I don’t know anything about him except he seems a nice man and once messaged me some tip on ‘integrating’ astral perceptions in to my day to day mind with ‘moving meditations’.
The Buddha had a bad back - so it would seem reasonable to me if he encouraged ‘core’ strength exercises in any way since it helps with spinal issues.
Are you looking for a textual argument for/against monastics doing exercise?
The vinaya example above is the one I can think of.
Or monastics who exercise other than walking meditation?
There are plenty of examples of monastics who do various exercises (Bhante Rahula, Ajahn Sucitto, Ajahn Munindo… ) and we’ve had discussions about exercise to alleviate pain on various threads before here.
I always found it interesting that the suttas claimed the Buddha could instantly teleport himself to remote locations. Given that, that he lived in the land that invented hatha yoga AND had backaches is a good vaccine against being a literalist with some of the writings.
And so what? Is yoga a magic cure for back aches? Hardly. In any case, the Buddha is often found stretching out his back. So I don’t understand your logic.
Coins depicting people in yogic postures were found in Harapas. I think that may be before the Buddha’s time.
Even if it is not, the suttas claimed the Buddha had powers other people would call divine.
On top of that he was a meditation master.
Any of those things would have given him more than enough power to relax back muscles in spasms, feeling stiff etc.
So that comes down to why he didn’t relax his back muscles with all of that power? The answer is that not everything in the Sutta Pitaka translations are literally true.
Zero disrespect intended. I don’t believe that the suttas have to be 100% literally true to be valued and respected.
Not EBT, but at Zen Mountain Monastery the Abbot, John Daido Loori, believed in combining different sorts of practices–meditation, of course, but also an art and an athletic practice, etc. I remember when I used to go in the 90’s several of the monastics did weight training.
I believe that one of the skills of a good lodgings assigner is that they group monks together based on how they spend their time. I can’t find the citation, but I believe that one of the groups was those who liked to practice body building. As I recall it was presented neutrally. Perhaps Bhante @Dhammanando knows where this is.
Sorry, this is the last I will comment on this… You are saying that the Buddha should have been able to cure his own illness based on nothing but assumptions and opinions. No where in the text is there the claim that the Buddha could heal his or anyone else’s illness just by an act of will. In fact there are numerous times when he is sick or has an injury and has to endure it. The ability to heal others is a different religion. In fact, the most famous Ayurvedic doctor in the world was the Buddha’s own personal physician, Jīvaka.
As far as his back problems, I believe the (commentarial?) explanation was that both that and his stomach problems were a result of his ascetic practices. So actual injury to the body. Simply relaxing does not fix an injured back, sorry to say.
It’s fine to not believe that the suttas are an accurate representation of people and events. But if you are going to come up with arguments to support that opinion, they need to be sound.
Dabba assigned dwellings to the monks according to their character.
He assigned dwellings in the same place to those monks who were experts on the discourses, thinking,
“They’ll recite the discourses to one another.”
And he did likewise for the experts on the Monastic Law, thinking,
“They’ll discuss the Monastic Law;”
for the expounders of the Teaching, thinking,
“They’ll discuss the Teaching;”
for the meditators, thinking,
“They won’t disturb each other;”
and for the gossips and the body-builders, thinking,
“In this way even these venerables will be happy.”
I’m not sure if body-builders are quite treated as neutral here, but no worse than a gossip.
I remember a sutta that Buddha used willpower to overcome a serious illness or affliction. At this moment i do not know anymore which one.
I think it does not mean that it is instantly gone.
That’s not an accurate read of that sutta. The food was inedible by others by virtue of it having been offered to the Buddha on an auspicious occasion. Not on account of it having been laced with poison.
And, of course, later on in the Parinibbana Sutta, the Buddha, does in fact pass away…
While the sutta does say that the Buddha could have used his psychic powers to extend his life, he would have needed an invitation to do so, and one was not forthcoming.
And, anyway, this is all very far afield of the OP
That’s true in the sense that fairly “normal”static postures are part of the system of postural yoga. But while sitting like the figure in the Pashupati seal is plausibly connected to later Hindu meditation posture and is fine for your back, it’s not the sort of exercise for strength & flexibility we associate with yoga in the west.
In the medieval era, there are some texts in the Hindu / Buddhist tradition which elaborate more on non-standard postures, and are typically very unhealthy / ascetic. Things like balancing on your hands for several hours. These are extreme challenges intended to have more preternatural benefits. Not really techniques that promote healthy muscles and connective tissue.
It’s only in the 1920s that you see the blending of exercise science with traditional yoga postures, traditional non-yoga fitness techniques (e.g. from Indian wrestling), and the individual insights of people like Yogendra that you get the sort of yoga routines that are proven to be effective in preventing and combating certain forms of back pain.
Much more plausible is that the system of “Indian club” exercise would have been available to the Buddha. AFAIK we have no strong archaeological evidence for it, and dating the earliest textual evidence is tricky (it was probably falsely attributed to a source earlier than its original composition, and then also had later insertions), but IMO it just kinda makes sense that people swinging practice weapons around for exercise would have started a while before it got written down. He came from the right type of family in the right place to be a practitioner in his youth.