This is my first post in the community. I’ve been reading through the discussions over the past few days to learn more about how to pronounce Pali.
I’m currently working on a paper on Buddhist Transcription Data, and I would like to include the IPA pronunciation of some words in Pali — and, if possible, Gandhari — as a side note.
Based on what I’ve gathered from the posts here and the recommended bibliography, here’s what I have so far. I was wondering if anyone could confirm if this seems reasonable, or if I’m misunderstanding anything:
Pratyeka: Sanskrit /prɐ.t̪jeː.kɐ/ (rather than /prɐt̪.jeː.kɐ/) Pali (pacceka): /pɐt͡ʃ.t͡ʃːeː.kɐ/ (I think duplicate consonants must be pronounced rather than assimilated)
Any feedback or corrections would be really appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!
Welcome to the D&D forum! We hope you enjoy the various resources, FAQs, and previous threads. We encourage you to use the search function for topics and keywords you are interested in.
We also ask you to please take a moment now to familiarize yourself with the forum guidelines: Forum Guidelines. May some of these resources be of assistance along the path.
If you have any questions or need further clarification regarding anything, feel free to contact the moderators by including @moderators in your post or a PM.
Thanks for the link! I have just received an email from one of the creators of that G. dictionary confirming that both Pali and Gandhari have geminated “g” and “l”, although Kharoṣṭhī script does not write them down, so indeed in both languages the consonant is duplicated and should be pronounced aprox. as “mog-gal-la-na”.
I’m guessing the same goes on with Pali word “pacceka”, although I’m not sure if the geminated “cc” should be pronounced as /-t͡ʃ.t͡ʃ-/.
For Pāli pronunciations, DPD lists them (For pacceka for example /pə.ceːkə/, and for Moggallāna, /mɒ.gɐllɑːnə/), though I’m not sure what Bhante uses as a basis for IPA pronunciations:
For a more thorough academic explanation, Bhante @Thanuttamo’s Māgadhabhāsā should be of some help.
That’s interesting and somehow confusing. DPD’s IPA for pacceka (or any word with that cluster, such as “icceva” or “paccuddharati”), always “removes” the first /c/ from the phonetic transcription. However, in Thanuttamo’s Māgadhabhāsā it says that “(i) Double consonants are pronounced as two distinct syllables, with a noticeable pause” (p. 17), which seems to agree with the examples in Nothnagel’s introduction to Pali (p. 11 of the PDF, no idea how authoritative this one is):
Double consonants are very frequent in Pāli and must be strictly pronounced as long consonants, thus: – nn–, as well as: – ss -, is like English – nn – and – ss– in unnecessary, combinations of nonaspirate with aspirate consonants need a tender stop so the aspirates can get uttered slightly explosive: pac-cud-dharati/ ug-gac-chati.
Bhante Thanuttamo offers ample references in his work (Dhammajoti, 2018: 2; Warder, 1963/2001: 4; in this case) so when in doubt, I’d go with that.
You can reach Bhante Bodhirasa at digitalpalidictionary@gmail.com (this contact freely available on the DPD website) and ask him how he finds his IPA pronunciations.
You can see the IPA of any Pali sutta just by going to the view menu, select ‘view root text: side by side’ if you are in an english translation of the sutta, then go to the ‘change pali script: and select Roman: IPA’. There is also ITRANS if that is helpful. (NOTE: there are some issues with this rendering correctly in Chrome on Mac, use FF or safari).
In addition to the above, I have been working on a pali IPA related project and this is how I have compiled the letters so far. I think this is inline with the suttacentral IPA, though i’m not sure if ḍh is the same now I’m looking at it.
one point to note is that the short-a at the end of words can sound more like a ‘ə’ whereas the one inside the word sounds more like ‘ʌ’
for example pʌn̪ə pana
That’s correct to my understanding. Like double consonants in Italian. Have you learned Brahmi or any of its derived abugidas? The writing system gives a good idea of how they understood syllables
Oh no, Anglophones trying to figure out consonant gemination
When a plosive (p, t, k, and so on) or an affricate (tʃ and so on) is geminated (that is, pronounced as long) the part that is lengthened is the hold, the part where the articulator (usually the tongue but in case of labials like p the lips) is making contact. Geminated affricates are in my experience usually transcribed like tːʃ, as there is only one release.
(Edit: of course if a geminated affricate is phonemically a sequence of two affricates, like in Pāli, it could be transcribed like tʃtʃ in broad transcription, but this only reflects the underlying phonemic structure, not the actual pronunciation.)
Also: in linguistic transcription there is a difference in broad (usually phonemic) transcription, written within /slashes/, and narrow (including varying levels of allophony and such depending on the context), written within [square brackets].
All transcriptions of ancient languages should be taken with a grain of salt, since they are by necessity always approximations and influenced by the theoretical basis the researcher giving them is relying on. That said:
Why are you assuming Sanskrit diphtongs have a near-close second element instead of close? I don’t think i’ve ever seen them transcribed like that in scholarly articles, but then again my knowledge of Sanskrit is limited so i could be wrong.
That does not seem right, why would this be the only voiced aspirated plosive pronounced as a fricative?
Great! That’s what I wanted to know. No, my knowledge of abugidas is quite limited. I’m mentioning some Chinese Buddhist terms that have been transcribed from some Indic language, and wanted to add the approximate pronunciation for comparison. For instance, the Chinese word for Maudgalyāyana, Mujianlian 目犍連, has a final -k sound in the first syllable in Late Han/Middle Chinese, so some scholars believe it may come from Pali.
Oh, I think you are right, I may remove the phonetic transcription of that word altogether, since I just need o note the final /d/ in the first syllable.
