In Anapanasati sutta the Buddha has said how 16 steps develop all 4 satipatthanas.
The first and fourth tetrad the Buddha has said that:
“I tell you, monks, that this—the in-&-out breath—is classed as a body among bodies, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on the body in & of itself…” He who sees with discernment the abandoning of greed & distress is one who watches carefully with equanimity, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on mental qualities in & of themselves."MN118 Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation
Seems clear.
But when it comes to 2nd and 3rd satipatthana the Buddha has said that
“I tell you, monks, that this—careful attention to in-&-out breaths—is classed as a feeling among feelings”. MN118
Is there any reason why careful attention to in-&-out breaths is correlated with 2nd satipatthana? Isn’t it something that should be done throughout all 16 steps?
Steps 9-12:
I don’t say that there is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing in one of lapsed mindfulness and no alertness, which is why the monk on that occasion remains focused on the mind in & of itself. MN118
Is there any special significance for mentioning to guard against lapsed mindfulness and alertness in the 3rd tetrad of Anapanasati? Again, isn’t that something that one should do even prior to 1st step of Anapanasati?
Anyone has any ideas about these passages? Are they related to satipatthana sutta?
Thank you.
I think part of the confusion might stem from B. Thanissaro’s translation.
In that section of MN 118, the Buddha is describing how the progression of Mindfulness of Breathing which, with each in-breath and each out-breath, fulfills each of the Four Kinds of Mindfulness meditation (satipatthana: body, feelings, mind, principles). The Buddha says:
“Mindfulness of Breathing, when cultivated in this way, actually fulfills the Four Kinds of Mindfulness meditation [satipatthana].”
In explaining how it fulfills, when he gets to the second satipatthana, he says:
“Whenever a mendicant practices breathing while experiencing rapture, or experiencing bliss, or experiencing mental processes, or stilling mental processes—at that time they meditate observing an aspect of feelings—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world. For I say that careful application of mind to the in-breaths and out-breaths is an aspect of feelings. That’s why at that time a mendicant is meditating by observing an aspect of feelings—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world.”
It’s necessary to clarify that these four statements are from Part B which is mindfulness of breathing (Part A) now applied to the four establishings of mindfulness. Its introduction states:
" And how is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing developed & pursued so as to bring the four establishings of mindfulness to their culmination?"
—Thanissaro
So mindfulness of breathing applies to all four foundations. The level in Part B is more advanced than Part A, for example the in-&-out breath focus now becomes a ‘body’ in itself. To accomplish this it is necessary to have mastered Step 3 in the first tetrad of Part A, where the breath effects are expanded through the whole body.
“winds that course through the body, in-and-out breathing, or anything else internal, within oneself, that’s wind, windy, & sustained: This is called the internal wind property.”
Hi. The following interpretation makes sense, although I cannot vouch for its linguistic accuracy: Bhikkhus, I say that when attending carefully to in-breaths and out-breaths there is a certain feeling among feelings.
If this suggestion is linguistically fatally flawed then the sentence must be saying: Careful attention is a pleasant feeling when applied to in-breaths & out-breaths.
The point of the sentence is obvious. The sentence must saying: pleasant feelings arise from giving careful attention to the in-breaths & out breaths.
Hi. I think the above passage is clarifying the 3rd satipatthana is not about experiencing distracting thoughts & hindrances. For example, many contemporary teachers, such as Bhikkhu Thanissaro & Joseph Goldstein, teach this very thing, namely, the 3rd satipatthana is about distracting thoughts & hindrances. This naturally cannot be the case because concentration is developed in Step 4 and further more greatly developed in Step 8. Therefore, step 9 cannot be about what Thanissaro & Goldstein often teach. There can be no distracting thoughts & hindrances at step 9. This is impossible due to the concentration previously developed.
Hi. While this is a good effort, the Pali word “sikkhati” does not mean “practices”, here. “Sikkhati” means “trains”. “Trains” means “Three Trainings”. “Practices” misses the stream-entry boat because the word “sikkhati” explicitly means morality, concentration & wisdom are being developed. The reason why “sikkhati” is missing from step 1 & 2 is because there is no morality or wisdom being developed here because the experience of the breathing is not yet lucid & sensitive enough to “touch the body”. When experience “touches the body”, any unwholesome mental states are directly felt within the breathing to be suffering (because the breathing will ruffle & stress). The term “whole body” means this, experiencing how the mind affects the body, which is intimately experienced via the breathing. “Whole body” does not mean “whole physical body”. It means “body including the breathing & mind within the body”. The physical body has consciousness within it, what is called “kāyaviññāṇaṁ”. Therefore “whole body” refers to everything inside of the body, which includes breathing, mind, mental formations & consciousness pertaining to the body.
Granted, other translations use trains but I was using @sujato’s translation which uses practices. I’m not sure there is much of a difference in English. One practices to train and one trains by practicing. I can see the merits of each.
Hi. I think the above passage is clarifying the 3rd satipatthana is not about experiencing distracting thoughts & hindrances. For example, many contemporary teachers, such as Bhikkhu Thanissaro & Joseph Goldstein, teach this very thing, namely, the 3rd satipatthana is about distracting thoughts & hindrances. This naturally cannot be the case because concentration is developed in Step 4 and further more greatly developed in Step 8. Therefore, step 9 cannot be about what Thanissaro & Goldstein often teach. There can be no distracting thoughts & hindrances at step 9. This is impossible due to the concentration previously developed.
I don’t think that 16 steps always have to linearly follow in “step 1…end of step 1…step 2…end of step 2…step 3” . Some of them might happen simultaneously. The numbering scheme isn’t found in the suttas. Also, just because one has dealt with the hindrances before the anapanasati (as some suttas vinayas seem to suggest) it doesn’t mean that hindrances can’t rearise again at some point during the practice. Even 1st Jhana is not immune to being harassed by the hindrances, at least sensuality:
Then, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.
"As I remained there, I was beset with attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality. That was an affliction for me. Just as pain arises as an affliction for a healthy person, even so the attention to perceptions dealing with sensuality that beset me was an affliction for me. AN9.41 Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation.
Anapanasati is linear. An alternate view to this will result in wrong aspiration & the underestimation of what anapanasati is. Individuals who don’t take meditation very seriously are best served using MN 10. MN 118 is auspicious.
As for AN 9.41, I do not believe this sutra is true. I do not have to believe everything in the suttas. It seems impossible sensual thoughts can arise in a jhana based on the abandonment of sensual thoughts.
AN 4.91 is about the unenlightened bodhisatta. The sutta may have a translation issue. The sutta may be describing the bodhisatta abided in the 1st jhana and considered this satisfactory. But after the jhana weakened & ended thoughts of sensuality returned. So the bodhisatta then thought to enter a higher jhana. However this also sounds illogical because how did the bodhisatta know there was a higher jhana if per MN 36 the bodhisatta discovered jhana himself? Personally I do not take some of those jhana suttas in the AN too seriously.
MN118 Anapanasati sutta (also MN10 Satipatthana sutta) is an expanded version of the satipatthana from SN/SA suttas (such as SN 47.2 = SA 622 on satipatthana, SN 54.1 = SA 803 on anapanasati).
As for AN 9.41, I do not believe this sutra is true. I do not have to believe everything in the suttas. It seems impossible sensual thoughts can arise in a jhana based on the abandonment of sensual thoughts.
It seems like a possibility that inferior level factors can show up in a next higher state to corrupt it. They are, however, perceived negatively . I remember there was a Vinaya story about Ven. Maha Mogallana (?) declaring “imperturbable” state (4th Jhana and lower 2 arupas) where he has heard sound. The Buddha stated that his state was “unpurified”.
