I’m looking for the sutta described in the title. It’s similar in theme to MN 113 or SN 17.5, but it specifically talks about virtue being sullied (or becomes non-virtue) if one becomes prideful because of it.
Possibly Mn30, the Shorter simile of the heartwood?
A search for “others down” in SuttaCentral returns 13 results, among which you might find what you are looking for.
Just referenced MN 29 here. This may be in line with what you are looking for. May you be well!
Thanks all. Those are all very close to what I’m looking for. They basically teach the same concept: One has sunk into defilement if one gets prideful and looks down upon others because of some gain or accomplishment.
It’s possible that what I’m looking for is in the commentaries. I know I’ve heard it in a Dhamma talk before hich I believe was from Ajahn Jayasaro.
Hi. My understanding is virtue in Buddhism relates to actions of body & speech rather than to actions of mind. Therefore I doubt critical thoughts about others would be deemed by the Buddha in the Scriptures as unvirtuous. It would only be unvirtuous if those critical thoughts are expressed with speech that breaches the various components of Right Speech.
That’s true to some extent. Although, if you don’t ‘call out’ (question) those unwise thoughts, they can become ‘solidified’ if you like and it becomes like a belief or a view. And views are very powerful and can lead you to do and say unwise things.
Being prideful because you are somehow ‘more virtuous’ because you follow (or try to) say the 5 precepts can lead to conceit and you can think that you’re better than other people who may not keep those precepts. But there are lots of kind people out there who may not necessary follow the precepts and are living good lives.
I’ve fallen prey to this myself so I’m speaking from experience here
Yes, MN 29 is the one that came to my mind, but in Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation:
Being diligent, he achieves the attainment of virtue. He is pleased with that attainment of virtue, but his intention is not fulfilled. He does not, on account of it, laud himself and disparage others. He does not become intoxicated with that attainment of virtue; he does not grow negligent and fall into negligence.
Virtue in the suttas covers the mind as well. There is “kāyasucaritaṁ; vacīsucaritaṁ; and manosucaritaṁ,” meaning good conduct by body, speech, and mind (c.f. Iti 65). These are defined in the two parallel lists of the ten unwholesome pathways of action, and the ten wholesome pathways of action. Mental conduct is defined as strong thoughts of greed, thoughts of hatred, and wrong views denying the afterlife and efficacy of kamma.
Now, the monastic discipline in the Vinaya-Piṭaka and Pāṭimokkha are mostly about body and speech, not about purely mental acts. The same would apply to whatever level of formal precepts you have undertaken: 5, 8, 10, etc.—the precepts and rules are barriers for body and speech. The mind is still very important for our precepts, as one’s perception and intentions can affect if something is an offense and what kind of offense it is.
Mental conduct itself is still part of the practice of virtue (sīla), but it is not within the domain of a communal rule that is enforced by a group; it remains a matter of personal integrity and training. You can see this distinction made when the Buddha is teaching his son Rāhula to develop his ethics by body, speech, and mind. He tells him about confessing bodily and verbal misdeeds, but not mental ones: MN 61. For lay people who do not follow the monastic code, a similar principle would again apply.
Be well!
This kind of nuances are such a gem in the suttas. Thanks for bringing it up, Bhante.
I was unable to find the word sila in the iti 65. I could only find the word kamma in iti 65. I remember the sutta mn 44 explaining sila is only speech, body kamma & livelihood.
That makes sense. Personally I would say the passage has to be read in more context. I assume you are referring to:
“The three spectrums of practice are not included in the noble eightfold path. Rather, the noble eightfold path is included in the three practice categories. Right speech, right action, and right livelihood: these things are included in the spectrum of ethics. Right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion: these things are included in the spectrum of immersion. Right view and right thought: these things are included in the spectrum of wisdom.”
MN 44
What this says is that the list of practices in the eightfold path are not all encompassing for the spectrum of sīla. It says rather that the mentioned aspects of the eightfold path are a subset, of category within, the larger spectrum of sīla. So it is making precisely the point that the spectrum of sīla is broader or more encompassing than the factors mentioned.
Be well!