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Suttas/letting spiritual life happen naturally? (With Buddha-Dhamma)

Hello,
Looking for suttas that talk about the holy life under Buddha naturally leading to Enlightenment.
Looking for suttas that then that say to not force in the divine life.
Looking then for what our Master Buddha said regarding letting the brahmacarya be more natural.
Meaning when seeking to be enlightened.

Thank you very much.

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Here you go!

Making a Wish

Cetanākaraṇīya Sutta AN 11.2

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Bookmarked! Thanks you happen to know if there is more?

The Disillusionment part is interesting. I think I need to look more of that. Never thought that

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I think this one is good for countering the tendency to be too obsessed with immediate results:

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Wow. Thats a good one.

Oh, that my chicks might pierce their shells with the points of their claws and beaks and hatch safely!’ yet the chicks are incapable of piercing their shells with the points of their claws and beaks and hatching safely. For what reason? Because that hen with eight, ten, or twelve eggs had not covered, incubated, and nurtured them properly.

Thanks these two are fine. :pray:t4:

It probably what Buddha meant by eternal in dhammapada. This natural thing just happens naturally in the world if you just follow the right Path.

  1. For hatred does not cease by hatred at any time: hatred ceases by love, this is an eternal rule.

Another ancient term is Sanatana dharma

A critical point to understand with AN 11.2 is that morality requires an effort of will, it does not come naturally:

“For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, ‘May freedom from remorse arise in me.’ It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.”—ATI

Right effort:

The 4 right efforts ( samma-padhāna ), forming the 6th stage of the 8-fold Path (i.e. sammā-vāyāma , s. magga ) are: (1) the effort to avoid ( saṃvara-padhāna ), (2) to overcome ( pahāna-padhāna ), (3) to develop ( bhāvanā-padhāna ), (4) to maintain ( anurakkhaṇa-padhāna ), i.e. (1) the effort to avoid unwholesome ( akusala ) states, such as evil thoughts, etc. (2) to overcome unwholesome states, (3) to develop wholesome ( kusala ) states, such as the 7 elements of enlightenment ( bojjhaṅga , q.v.), (4) to maintain the wholesome states.—AN 4.13,14

Do not go with the flow:

“And who is the individual who goes against the flow? There is the case where an individual doesn’t indulge in sensual passions and doesn’t do evil deeds. Even though it may be with pain, even though it may be with sorrow, even though he may be crying, his face in tears, he lives the holy life that is perfect & pure. This is called the individual who goes against the flow.”—AN 4.5

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Good point. Following the Eightfold Path etc but following that the process should go natural. If you Follow it as Buddha instructed. That’s what I was seeking question to. In my experience actually Conviction in the Buddha-Dhamma. Help a lot and it’s seemed what was missing before I started meditating.

Conviction can happen before Virtue. As it after I got Conviction. I became a upasaka. But then again the day you got conviction is also natural, then it was only natural because I had conviction, that I went after 1 year to become a upasaka infront monks out of respect for the Dharma. After that morality as a vow becomes stronger with your conviction and with the blessings of the sangha. 1 year after that I went to sri lanka. Because my conviction in Dhamma. I want to meet monks. And it only natural. That someone doing that gets inspired by monks to meditate etc. Keep precepts as pure as possible. And as Buddha recommended always keep progressing. So actually we have to from 5 precepts to more. But then again it’s with time one naturally becomes ready to step up. Even if a person becomes monk. They most time say it feels like something pushing you to do it. It’s natural paramis builded up from past life. So there is natural push toward Nibbana. :pray:t4:

Virtues and Faith. Ying and Yang

“Just as at a crossroads on level ground, a great banyan tree becomes the resort for birds all around, so the clansman endowed with faith becomes the resort for many people: for bhikkhus, bhikkhunīs, male lay followers, and female lay followers

If one has faith (conviction) there is a natural obligation to put it into practice by arousing persistence and effort in the development of morality:

“Lord, a disciple of the noble ones who is thoroughly inspired by the Tathāgata, who has gone solely to the Tathāgata [for refuge] would have no doubt or uncertainty concerning the Tathāgata or the Tathāgata’s message. Of a disciple of the noble ones who has conviction, it can indeed be expected that he will keep his persistence aroused for abandoning unskillful mental qualities and taking on skillful mental qualities, that he will be steadfast, solid in his effort, not shirking his duties with regard to skillful mental qualities. Whatever persistence he has is his faculty of persistence."—SN 48.50

Only those who have achieved stream-entry are irrevocably on the path, and even then there are seven more fetters to overcome. There are definitely dynamics based on morality within groups of factors, but it is incorrect and dangerous to describe the path generally as happening naturally. That’s why mindfulness is described as the gatekeeper of a frontier fortress, carefully screening entrants (AN 7.63).

A Theravada Buddhist is expected not to rest and to verify articles of faith through investigation and experience, and if joy arises as a result of morality then that is called ‘the path arising’. That is the terminology. Joy does not arise in a fully completed form but only feebly, and needs to be developed independently as intended in the exercise in the second tetrad of the Anapanasati sutta, in preparation for the ‘path arising.’

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I agree. Thank you for gathering this info. But I mean again when for example someone practicing in path. Doing everything you said. It naturally leads to Enlightenment. That’s why Buddhas of the past, present, and future follows the path as the main teachings. That the 4th truth. And one has to have a real reason to follow it.

Just as plenty of rice is harvested and plenty of wheat is stored up in the king’s border town to ensure peace within and to control outside enemies; in the same way the noble disciple, through the calming of initial and sustained application of the mind, with inward stillness and mental one-pointedness, without initial and sustained application of the mind, with joy and happiness born of concentration, dwells having attained the second absorption. He abides in a happiness that lacks noth- ing, a peaceful happiness that leads naturally to nirvana.

What is the nutriment of right attention? The answer is: its nutri- ment is faith. Faith too has its nutriment; it is not without nutriment. What is the nutriment of faith? The answer is: its nutriment is hearing the true Dharma. Hearing the true Dharma too has its nutriment;
it is not without nutriment.
What is the nutriment of hearing the true Dharma? The answer is:
its nutriment is association with good friends. Association with good friends too has its nutriment; it is not without nutriment.
What is the nutriment of association with good friends? The answer is: its nutriment is good people.
[It is just as] with the great ocean. It too has its nutriment; it is not without nutriment. What is the nutriment of the great ocean? The answer is: the rain is its nutriment.
At times it rains heavily and after the rain the mountain creeks and the marshes of the plains are filled with water. The mountain creeks and the marshes of the plains being filled, the small streams are filled. The small streams being filled, the large streams are filled. The large streams being filled, the small rivers are filled. The small rivers being filled, the large rivers are filled. The large rivers being filled, the great ocean is filled. This is how, step by step, the great ocean is filled.
In the same way, because there are good people, there will be asso- ciation with good friends. Once there is association with good friends, there will be hearing of the true Dharma. Once there is hearing of the true Dharma, faith will be engendered. Once faith is engendered, there will be right attention. Once there is right attention, there will be right mindfulness and right attentiveness. Once there is right mindfulness and right attentiveness, there will be guarding of the sense faculties. Once there is guarding of the sense faculties, there will be the three types of good conduct. Once there are the three types of good conduct, there will be the four establishments of mindfulness. Once there are the four establishments of mindfulness, there will be the seven factors of awakening. Once there are the seven factors of awakening, there will be wisdom and liberation. This is how, step by step, wisdom and liberation come about.

I hope those Agamas explain my point better

It’s like the conditioned leading to the unconditioned

Listening to the true Dharma too is conditioned; it is not without conditions. By what is listening to the true Dharma conditioned? The answer is: listening to the true Dharma is conditioned by approaching [a teacher].
Approaching [a teacher] too is conditioned; it is not without con- ditions. By what is approaching [a teacher] conditioned? The answer is: approaching [a teacher] is conditioned by having respect.
If one has respect for good friends, one hears what one has not heard before,

It appears the Q&A has been solved.

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