SuttaCentral

Taught by an enlightened being

A question came up in my mind after coming across this again and again

How can have one such a good Kamma to get into robes, receiving teaching from an enlightened being and then disrobes and returns to worldly live?
Through practicing and attending to the teachers and Monastery needs, the Kamma should enhance, or not?

I just can’t quite get my head around it.

My thoughts are related to the Kamma and it’s ways NOT a discussion about disrobing. :face_with_monocle: :relaxed:

Do everything with a mind that lets go :pray: :rose:With metta

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I know, it’s amazing right? But it even happened in the Buddha’s time. For example, Sunakkhatta the Licchavi was upset that the Buddha wouldn’t teach him how to develop supernatural powers and “only” taught him the way to the end of suffering (!) Being so disappointed, he disrobed.

I think sometimes people come into robes expecting it to be one way and they get frustrated and leave when it isn’t what they expected. Some people just don’t have the wisdom to recognize that the end of suffering is what they really want.

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It’s not as easy as it looks. Even people do not understand what suffering is. People think the end of suffering is the great bliss of the mind.

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Kamma is complicated! And the specific ways it works itself out can only really be understood by a Buddha. But for sure we carry a load of both good and bad karma. So saying “How can someone have enough good karma for X but then Y happens to them” just doesn’t make sense.

As well, the Buddha said that the wrongly led monastic life can harm someone.

https://suttacentral.net/sn2.8/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&reference=main/pts&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

OK, well, someone else said it, but the Buddha told the monks to memorize it.

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This has to be put into the full sutta perspective connected with right effort:

  1. Effort required to begin a particular action (arambha dhatu viriya)
  2. Effort required to sustain an action in spite of obstacles (nikkama dhatu viriya)
  3. Effort required to continue till the completion of an action (parakkama dhatu viriya)

These are separate stages, and the ability to sustain is often stressed by the Buddha:

“Thus you should train yourselves: ‘We will relentlessly exert ourselves, (thinking,) “Gladly would we let the flesh & blood in our bodies dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, but if we have not attained what can be reached through manly firmness, manly persistence, manly striving, there will be no relaxing our persistence.”’ That’s how you should train yourselves.”—AN 2.5

Persistence follows faith (conviction)—AN 5.2. Also SN 48 Indriya Samyutta.

It has to be understood the Buddha’s teaching demands individual action, and that the Buddha stated it was not himself to focus on, but the dhamma.

276. You yourselves must strive; the Buddhas only point the way. Those meditative ones who tread the path are released from the bonds of Mara."—Dhp 20, 276

" "Monks, be islands unto yourselves,[1] be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other. Those who are islands unto themselves… should investigate to the very heart of things:[2] ‘What is the source of sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair? How do they arise?’ [What is their origin? ]—SN 22.43

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It probably all comes back to our defilements and how rooted (instead of uprooted) they are. Looking from that angle, Khamma doesn’t seem to be so much involved anymore…

@Snowbird
Yep, true, I totally agree, Khamma is hard to understand and I still try to get it a bit at least :grin:

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