'Tayo samādhī' and 'aparepi tayo samādhī' (DN33/DN34)

[verajip]

@Gabriel

How do you know what Dhamma is if you don’t dig into the Pali?

Not too many words. One can dive in Pali but still not understand without guidance. One can drown I fear.

[verajip]

@Gabriel

For most people the only Dhamma they know is the Dhamma of translators. They completely depend on the interpretations of translators and only based on that can form their own understanding.

For people with little dust this is enough.

[verajip]

@Gabriel

While Buddhist practice is a lot about ‘letting go’ - this thing (accuracy of understanding) we surely should not let go

I am afraid this isn’t true…we should let go of everything.
We should train our minds to see the knot inside not focus on the knots outside.

[Gabriel]

@verajip

For people with little dust this is enough.

Do you suggest we should have little dust in our eyes? Good idea, just how do I do that again? Either ‘I look inside myself’ and ‘connect with my inner wisdom’, or I find a Guru, or I pick up a Dhamma book.

Most of us are not wise enough to just look inside. And only few people are blessed with a personal liberated Guru.

If you’re liberated already you don’t need to work - ‘have little dust in your eyes’ is hardly practical advice. Also ‘let everything go, Dhamma, practice, teaching, inspiration’ might work for a non-returner but not for normal folks.

[brooks]

@verajip

On a different note can you or someone please post links to suttas where Buddha taught jhanas to lay people? This is for my reference and not to start another discussion.

Interesting question Veraji! AN 5.176 may be helpful. This sutta as it relates to jhana could probably be a new thread. Seems to me that it refers to first jhana because the aim of the instruction is rapture born of seclusion. Also, it is to householders. However, the specific term jhana is not used.

[karl_lew]

@Mat

V&V can be gross when in day to day ‘consciousness’ and very subtle in the first jhana.

Yes. That makes sense. At some point I find that after focusing intently for a length of time, verbal processes cease (I literally can’t talk) even though there are still mental processes that can be placed and directed. It was quite bizarre to find myself not able to talk when I tried to answer a question someone was asking me. It took several seconds to actually get my mouth to flap out something intelligible. This puzzled me for many years until I read the following recently:

Verbal processes cease first –MN44

[Viveka]

Greetings @verajip Just a housekeeping matter. When replying to multiple posts, it helps the flow of discussion if you put them all into one post, rather than replying to each one seperately. Just makes it a little more compact

[verajip]

Thanks Viveka. Sorry about that.

Also Thank you to @karl_lew and @brooks for the sutta references.

[anon38492442]

@frankk

including audio,

aussie accent I hope

[karl_lew]

@anon38492442

aussie accent I hope

I will add Nicole to SuttaCentral Voice as an option. Nicole’s rate of speech will be between Amy and Raveena’s.

UPDATE: Actually, If you don’t mind, I will add Russell instead of Nicole. We already have three female voices. I have today learned that male voices may be more intelligible to listeners with high frequency hearing loss. Hopefully Russell will prove intelligble for such listeners.

[Coemgenu]

@karl_lew

I have today learned that male voices may be more intelligible to listeners with high frequency hearing loss.

I once knew an older man once who didn’t really listen to female singers anymore, not out of gender preference, but rather because his ability to hear higher frequencies was going.

[Mkoll]

It’s age-related hearing loss. Presbycusis is the medical term. It’s very common in older adults. I’m not close to being an older adult and I’m deaf above 18 kHz or so.