Tech is the past—and it’s burying us in it

We’ve become so conditioned to thinking of the future in terms of tech that we have lost the capacity to imagine any other kind of future. I grew up on sci-fi, which was full of space lasers and FTL, all operating in 17th century ideas of “empire” and “colonies”. Sure, there were exceptions—Ursula le Guin imagined futures where humans cared about the forest and allowed themselves to change—but mostly it was the same people with better machines.

There’s something in tech, I think, that enshrines the past in ways beneath our consciousness. Perhaps it’s the concept of “memory”. In humans, “memory” is a creative process, where the past is re-enlivened with emotion and purpose, but also with randomness and newness; each act of remembering is unique. In a computer, “memory” is something fixed. A photo is always the same. the words we say are stuck there in black and white. The past is not a vaguely receding ocean of memories slowly merging into the unknowable, but crisp sharp images, as present as the present.

We talk about how a person’s data is used by tech companies to target ads and other creepy things. But that “data” is not you, it’s something of your past. Once upon a time, you went on Amazon to order a new toilet seat, and now you are haunted by images of toilet seats wherever you go. “You enjoyed this toilet seat, maybe you’d like this one!”

People get hauled over the coals for something they said on social media 6 years ago. There it is, as fresh and as something they said yesterday. Movie theaters are full of remakes and sequels. Twenty year old pop stars make songs that evoke that nostalgic era of the far-off eighties. (I was there: there was great music, but it didn’t sound like “eighties” music!)

Tech is for recycling things. Someone makes a button for something on the web. Great, copy the code, use that button. Businesses are obsessed with “best practices”, which means, “do whatever someone thinks worked in the past”. Social media is full of selfies that freeze smiles that are gone the moment the photo is over. And not to mention AI, which is just a statistical rendering of humanity’s digital past.

Sure, we do things in the present as well. We call such events “live”, apparently without irony. They stick out like islands in a sea of dead data.

It’s not that we shouldn’t remember the past. And it’s not that there aren’t plenty of forms of data that are really suited to being preserved in this way. Ancient scripture for example. The whole point is to preserve it unchanged, and the digital medium works just fine for that.

It’s the sheer weight of it all. Our imaginations have become so corrupted by the reality of tech that we can’t imagine a future except through its lens. Here again, the sci-fi authors were the prophets. They ran out of future in the seventies, and then we had cyberpunk: near-future dystopias dominated by evil tech corporations. I mean, you can’t fault them for accuracy.

Try it right now. Imagine a tomorrow where tech is not the center of things. Imagine a future where what evolves is humanity. Where we have better societies, better politics. Where human consciousness is more free, more open, more wise. Where we indulge in the creative possibilities of the human mind. Where tech, if we allow it to exist, serves humanity. Imagine a world with less, not more.

The irony of this is that, the further we go down the path where tech is all, the more we ensure a future where tech doesn’t exist at all. Tech, with its valorization of dead-end capitalist consumerism, is driving us towards climate collapse. And when things break down, the fanciest things will go the soonest. Tech is built of fragile, interdependent components, and is massively exposed to cascading failures. The whole system assumes more, more more; and when more isn’t in the pipeline, from where do we get the chips? Who is running those undersea cables? Who pays the bill for all those servers? Who fixes your electric vehicle when the company goes bust?

When the tech world breaks down, it’ll break down quickly. When your phone stops working, it’ll create a cascade of effects that render a whole range of other tech and services inoperable. When a million people’s phones stop working, what happens then? What happens when we realize that the entire tech industry for a generation has been focused on monetizing new features and no-one in corporate cares about redundancy and security?

You’ll want to order a meal online. But you can’t. So you’ll revert to the unthinkably primitive: going to places and talking to people. Or figuring out how to do things yourself.

Maybe it’s for the best. I don’t know. Maybe we needed this lesson in the horrors of the past. Maybe the wisdom of our age is the realization that, when the supposed gurus of the future, the genius innovators of our technological utopia, turned out to be eugenicists and misogynists stuck in fantasies of empire and colonialism, for whom “freedom” means the freedom to be Nazis, it is time to shake our heads and clear our minds; time to wake from their nightmares and dream new dreams of our own.

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I’ve followed technology all my life, as well as electricity. It’s two things I personally find interesting, but it’s two things that have caused more trouble than anything else.

The sun has the potential to knock these things out tomorrow, and the way everything is going, I can see it happening soon.

What amazes me the most is our lack of learning from history, it just repeats itself time and time again.
I’m 100% convinced that the human species is the least intelligent of them all in nature.

Look at Elon Musk for example, there is no doubt he is very clever, yet his answer is to colonise mars, that will never happen, but if it was possible, does he seriously think it would be any different to Earth.

Greed will travel anywhere!

:dove:

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Thanks for the OP.

One aspect of the current problem, imho, is that to live in a civilization people need to be civilized.

Essential aspects of humane living like trust, kindness, tolerance, and wisdom can’t be digitized onto a spreadsheet or a P&L document.
So they tend to be undervalued or even ignored in the world of tech and finance, the world of bits and qubits, and the worlds of algorithm-induced dopamine hits.

Yet without them…

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Great point.

I’d go even further: they are seen as being inefficient and unreliable, and the tech sector ruthlessly “optimizes” for their removal. An obvious example is “trust”, which crypto is supposed to dispose of. Or AI, which is doing the same for “wisdom”.

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Initial reaction - not at all worked through yet - is this is really problematic from a mental health perspective. So much of healing is about re-undersrsnding the past. One may, for instance, ask what resource (compassion, perspective, etc) they needed when going through a hard time and then re-access a memory with that resource present. To be clear this is NOT about lying. No one is suggesting you pretend the bad things didn’t happen. But if you can only access a memory through a lens of shame to be able to access it through a lens of compassion for 5-year-old-you can be transformative. Narrative therapy is a modality specifically focused on helping us re-tell our stories. To the extent tech locks people into a rigid view of the past it blocks people’s ability to heal and grow.
Thank you, Bhante @sujato I will definitely give this a lot of thought. And bounce it off some counsellors for their takes.

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Absolutely, and this is something I was definitely thinking about.

I think the human mind is incredibly adaptable and resilient, and we cope with all kinds of changes and challenges. But everything has limits.

I can’t help but look at the terrifying stats on the rise of mental illness since 2012, especially in teen girls, and the many, many reports of utterly dysfunctional behavior reported by teachers in the classroom, corroborated by my friends who ran a preschool, and then look at the amplifying and accelerating effects on AI on Gen Alpha. We’re walking across a busy highway against the lights while looking only down at our phones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/24/opinion/social-media-and-teen-depression.html

And for anyone who wants some broader stats, this is the CDC report:

Summary of the summary. For US high school kids over 2011 to 2021:

  • sex is down about a third
  • drugs/alcohol down a third
  • violence is about the same
  • mental illness and suicidality is up a third

The prevailing hypothesis for the latter is the effects of social media and smartphones.

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Have you read E. M. Forster’s “The Machine Stops”? Oddly prescient.

Stanislaw Lem’s Futurological Congress is also extremely prescient about the times we are living in now. And the Cyberiad is parody of AI taken to the extreme. It takes a Polish writer in the 1960s using only his imagination to predict exactly what the outcome of tech will be.

Oddly enough, the more automated and digital we are, the more we crave for physical experiences. It’s no secret young people like vinyl records, film cameras, paper writing pads, fountain pens, etc. Virtual worlds make it obvious everything we experience is sankhata, we crave a certain kind of authenticity and non-ephemeralness that the Buddha tells us we actually need to disassociate from.

Excuse me, I need to post a TikTok video about me wearing my latest haul from Shein, accessories supplied by my sponsor, and you can experience bonus footage at OnlyFans. Don’t forget to also visit my Instagram page!

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I’m wondering if you are familiar with Yuval Noah Harari? He is an advisor to Klaus & co.

I saved a 15 min recording the other day ( so prob too long to post here) of a montage of spliced together interviews he has done, that for me, took the diabolical side of future of tech to new & disturbing levels.

His comments can be summed up as we are ‘probably one of the last generations of Homo sapiens’, coz ‘the masters of the planet’ plan to ‘make bodies, brains & minds’ for ‘inorganic entities’ who ‘don’t have emotions’ but will have ‘eternal life’ to ‘populate even dominate the earth’ and the ‘best guess’ is to keep us humans ‘happy with drugs and computer games’ in the interim.
(The words in quotation marks are verbatim)

I usually try to stay in my happy bubble and not look at what they are up to too often because nothing positive comes of reminding myself that megalomaniac eugenicist psychopaths are running this planet and their agendas and programming ( much via A.I & technology) are trickling down thru govts, media, the entertainment industry, the education system, the colloquial ‘idiot box’ (tv) programming and in to the minds of the avg human. ‘Hackable animals’ Yuval called us … and sadly he is right.

I don’t want to go quite as far as horse & cart, but I would def take a rewind over letting this dystopian future play out. The harm to humanity, imo, far outweighs any loss from giving up ( or not creating) the types of tech Yuval talks about. I find it quite sick & twisted really.

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Something beautifully ironic to me seeing this thread’s take down of “tech” and so on take place in cyberspace mediated by the very computers and technology which is the subject of ire :joy: I find myself wondering what the Amish communities in the United States might think of threads like this, but then they can’t access them since they’ve actually given up the “tech” that is castigated. :pray:

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I see less irony in it. SuttaCentral and this forum are tech but relatively low-tech and tamed by the five precepts. They are not subject to the profit motives outlined in OP.

Besides, technology use is a spectrum. A plow, a ladle, buttons on a shirt are tech, too, just not electric. A car is tech, and even those with combustion engines use electricity. Many Amish people today even have phones. They just keep it in a shed outside of their home. That practice might not be a bad model to follow after all.

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The OP mentions “techs” valorization of dead-end capitalist consumerism, but otherwise profit motives aren’t mentioned nor is it clear that non-profit tech usage would somehow escape the ire directed at “tech” here. The OP mentions computer memory as being somehow a problem… well, SuttaCentral makes use of that computer memory. Maybe posts and so on should be erased after a week?

As for SuttaCentral being “low-tech” I have no idea what that means. I agree that “tech” hasn’t been well defined in the OP so maybe you’re right that SC is “low-tech” versus the “high tech”, but it isn’t clear at all that this is what OP is going for. From what I can tell, it is more like “tech” is “the man” and the OP wants to stick it to “the man.” :joy: Or like saying “they” are the problem without actually specifying who “they” are :joy:

Indeed! It isn’t clear at all what “tech” means is it? Just that whatever “tech” means in the OP … it is bad. Computer memory is mentioned so it would seem computers are part of the “tech” that is bad. The web is mentioned so it would seem the web is part of the “tech” that is bad. Social media is mentioned so it would seem social media is part of the “tech” that is bad.

But the irony remains… SuttaCentral and this very discourse uses computers, the web, and social media. People on here have accounts with seemingly eternal computer memory and comments are ranked up and down and people build up “online reputation” etc. :pray:

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I can’t tell you what Bhante means but I can tell you what I mean.

The public facing part of SuttaCentral is a simple database retrieval application with some UI enhancements put on top for dictionary lookup and such. This forum is a little more interactive but still a simple CRUD application. There is no machine learning or automated personalization anywhere in this as far as I can tell. (Mostly) no tweaks to drive engagement:

  • although there are likes, topics and comments are not promoted based on the likes,
  • although one’s profile shows the number of likes received, for some reason this feels less central to me than “karma” on Reddit,
  • there are no followers, and also no “retweets,” “quote tweets,” or anything of the like, that is also designed to drive emotionally charged engagement, and
  • posts are moderated according to clearly stated values.

I agree with you that there are aspects of this forum that do feed the conceit of self (asmimāno). For example, people choose names, avatars, and those “like” notifications still draw us to curate an image of our self. I dislike this, but the situation is still much better than on other forums I know. And I think that that is because the moderation policy is explicitly to follow right speech.

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For me, I don’t feel like it needs to be a case of either-or.

Using an analogy of explosives, … tnt :firecracker: can be useful to help humanity build & create, … up explosive tech to the point of a nuke :bomb: tho and then it serves no purpose except pure destruction.

Just coz we ‘can’ make use of some tech doesn’t mean we should welcome all tech. Least of all when the tech in the hands of a few creates control systems or harm to the many.

We need to be careful to distinguish between the SC site with texts and the forum (Discuss & Discover). The SC main site is indeed a very straightforward serving up the exact text the user asks for. There is a little bit of AI in the current “quick” search in the form of suggestions.

This forum, however, does indeed have some important algo stuff going on in the background, most importantly in the granting of user trust levels. Ones “power” on the site is a result of positive interactions over time. Moderators get these powers granted to them manually (and their powers far exceed even the top level powers of regular users).

As well, for longer threads there is a kind of summary feature that shows the highest rated posts:


I don’t know the algo behind this, but I have assumed it is a combination of likes and replies.

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But of course.

Just because a tool can be used for good consequence doesn’t mean all usage of a tool will lead to good consequences. Just because a tool can be used for bad consequence doesn’t mean all usage of a tool will lead to bad consequences.

This OP (Original Post) on the other hand paints with a very broad brush. The OP isn’t talking about specific uses of specific tools and the good/bad consequences thereof. The OP is painting with the “tech” brush and lamenting broadly that “tech” is “burying us.” The irony remains. The very website that was used to communicate the OP is a seeming example of the broad brush used to lament. I find the OP utterly unconvincing. :pray:

Great post and articulates something that I have thought as well.

I studied electrical engineering in college thinking I could somehow contribute to a better world and help transition to sustainable energy and make a difference through technology. As I got closer to graduating, I realized that the solution isn’t quite as simple as just building a lot of highly efficient solar panels. The problem of climate change has its roots in our political and economic systems, and even the “solutions” we have to climate change are often based in extractive resource gathering from exploited countries via exploited labor that harms the environment and local people.

On top of all of that, the jobs that were available by and large were working for defense contractors (naturally, being American) and designing commodities that were meant to be consumed and disposed of to maximize profits. What is the good in that? We have so many intelligent people with great ideas on how to make better cities, more sustainable food and energy usage, and decrease poverty and hunger for everyone around the world through technology but we don’t because cough profits for about 0.1% of the population cough.

I’ve decided we have enough technology and intelligent people, we just don’t have enough people that actually CARE. I don’t think we can use technology to save us from the problems excessive technological consumption is creating for us. We need a solution that bases our social systems in care and equity for each other.

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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452292924000493

1-s2.0-S2452292924000493-main.pdf (722.6 KB)

Paper that illustrates how we can use 30% of current resource usage and reach a good living standard for every human being while also enabling ecological justice

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I took a training today on the negative impacts of social media and all the related new technologies on teens. It is scary how evolved the risks have become. And how AI has become such an effective tool for predators.

One development that really struck me was how AI is in an arms race with teens to sextort them. AI created imaginary girls to get teen boys to send nude photos or something that could be used to extort money from them. To detect the AI fakees, boys would have the image do a series of things - touch your nose, nod your head, cross your arms - to confirm it was a real person responding real time. So the AI now films the man actually running the scam and transforms him into a teenage girl with a teenage girl’s voice. He can respond real time to the teen’s request to touch his nose or whatever the teen asks for as proof it is a real girl. We saw a video of the fake and it was really really convincing. One teen told of being tricked into sending nudes and then having the face of the girl he was talking to dissolved into a man and the man said, “I’ve got you.” It’s hard to imagine the horror that poor kid must have felt. And there have been a number of kids who have committed suicide after being the victims of sextortion.

If you are a parent of a teen, White Hatter in BC has an excellent free online book on Internet/Social Media/Tech risks and security strategies. Highly recommended:
White Hatter Online Parenting Book

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Hi JiminBC, I know a teen who has been a victim to this. It’s just so sad and so so wrong :frowning: He was warned for years too. I think the kids need to see these ‘deep fake’ reveals for themselves to really smack them in the face with what they are being lured in to, in a way that words can’t impact them. :pensive:

It’s not just ‘your’ post hitting home, … but as someone who doesn’t watch tv or the ‘news’ and hasn’t seen a single news report on Russia/ Ukraine or Israel/ Palestine a couple of threads today have thrown in my face what I was wilfully not looking at so far, and I’m conflicted between feeling so sad I could cry and wanting to go all John Conner on those who created this tech to use for such un-evolved purposes :pleading_face::rage:

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Is the eightfold path “utterly unconvincing” to you too? After all it uses the conditioned to reach the unconditioned :wink: Using a non tech platform to talk about the problems of being mired in tech is likely to reach the wrong audience.

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