The Balance Between Dhamma and Meditation

[CurlyCarl]

@SDC

Doesn’t sound like a “missionary” monk to me.

The translation seems possibly generous. “Panna” does not always mean “wisdom”. I think you need to refute my reference to MN 95.

Again, SN 48.53 says:

Furthermore, a mendicant who is a trainee understands the five faculties:

Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, sekho bhikkhu pañcindriyāni pajānāti—

faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom.

saddhindriyaṁ, vīriyindriyaṁ, satindriyaṁ, samādhindriyaṁ, paññindriyaṁ.

And although they don’t have direct meditative experience of their destination, apex, fruit, and culmination,

Yaṅgatikāni yaṁparamāni yaṁphalāni yaṁpariyosānāni. Na heva kho kāyena phusitvā viharati;

they do see them with penetrating wisdom.

paññāya ca ativijjha passati.

This too is a way that a mendicant who is a trainee can understand that they are a trainee.

Ayampi kho, bhikkhave, pariyāyo yaṁ pariyāyaṁ āgamma sekho bhikkhu sekhabhūmiyaṁ ṭhito ‘sekhosmī’ti pajānāti.

[SDC]

I definitely don’t need to refute it since it is besides the point, which is that these were not mere information gatherers. Perhaps they didn’t have final knowledge, but they had valuable qualities and knowledge that were rare and worthy of praise and would certainly aid others in their development.

[CurlyCarl]

@SDC

these were not mere information gatherers

Obviously we have discussed this matter enough. I offered MN 95 & SN 48.53, to show the phrase: “they do see them with penetrating wisdom: paññāya ca ativijjha passa” is not necessarily something very profound. I rest my case.

[SDC]

So, then let me kindly refer you to your original objection to prevent any further spreading:

@CurlyCarl

Hello SDC. I doubt non-practice can co-exist with becoming a valuable source of information. In the context of AN 6.46, I imagine those monks who were teaching monks merely strictly repeated what the Buddha taught them. Today, the Buddha is not here with us for sutta study.

I directly addressed this in my response to you above. I hope it was satisfactory.

[stu]

@IanG

In spiritual direction we use something called the spirituality wheel, a circle which is divided into four quadrants - head spirituality, fed by study and teaching; heart spirituality nurtured through music and spontaneous expression; mystical spirituality, which is supported by meditation and silent retreats; and social action spirituality, where connection with God through service and justice seeking.

Our work is the integration of the opposite quadrant and finding a balance across all four quadrants.

I wonder if this has parallels in Buddhism?

So Early Buddhism (which is mainly discussed on this forum) is much more path and progress orientated I think. We have the idea that the whole path to enlightenment is a natural process with natural progression from beginning to end. We see this in texts such as AN 10.2 which starts with “an ethical person, who has fulfilled ethical conduct, need not make a wish …” and ends with the practitioner having realized “the knowledge and vision of freedom”. The supreme “ethical conduct” that is required here is laid out in the rules and discipline of the monks and nuns that was formulated by the Buddha during his ministry. For us lay practitioners we start with fundamental ethics (no killing, lying, cheating, stealing, or alcohol/drugs) and then we have the option of taking on further ethics from the mendicants arsenal.

A nice, short, contemporary article on this is found here:

Dependent Liberation by Bhikkhu Brahmali

[IanG]

Thanks @stu for these insights. I found them very helpful.

It was very interesting to read the monastic rules. They reflect many of the rules we have in the various ‘Rules of Life’ which those entering monastic communities commit to.

I’ll take a look at the article you suggested.

Ian