Well, I think we have a reasonably clear picture based on how the Buddha solved this problem. Initially, we recall, he followed a more Jain-style path based on extreme asceticism and deprivation - effectively starving oneself to death. Ultimately, he accepted food that was offered to him. Thus began the vaunted âmiddle wayâ of Buddhism. That middle way, as we see it in the suttas, is a less extreme form of renunciant life that depends on non-renunciants who provide the basic material support needed for wandering mendicants to live and practice without starving themselves.
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These are themes that I have been developing in this thread and elsewhere on suttacentral.
On this site Search on âtrans-partisanâ , âhonest brokerâ and âheterodox academyâ
The reference to âgoing forthâ was in response to @DKervick use of the phrase.
I heard it as a reference to the simile/analogy of âthe pathâ as a long journey.
FYI: This is the appropriate thread to contribute a social-political analysis,comments or thoughts.
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- The two are dissimilar, their dwelling and conduct
far apart:
the layman supporting a wife and the ascetic owning
nothing.
The layman is unrestrained in harming other beings,
while the muni, ever restrained, protects living beings.
(14)- Just as the blue-necked peacock, flying in the sky,
never approaches the speed of a goose,
so the layman is no match for the bhikkhu,
a muni meditating secluded in the woods. (15)
- Muni Sutta Translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi
It seems that in ancient India it was thought that the best way to protect living beings and to live a spiritual life was by going forth. I imagine a quietistic bhikkhu living in the woods has a much lower impact on the planet and does much less harm to other humans than even the most eco-conscious social justice promoting householder.
Itâs completely off topic - I donât care, flag me:
Thanks for the giggle, this thread (and the others like it) have really begun to sap my spirits, this thoroughly charming phase puts a few pennies back in the bank.
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I think the suttas more encourage the development of virtue out of compassion rather than duty or obligation. And some of the things encouraged if widely adopted would be good for all society. I really like this sutta because it not only encourages generosity to the sangha but to the poor as well:
This was said by the LordâŠ
âBhikkhus, these three kinds of persons are found existing in the world. What three? One who is like a rainless cloud, one who rains locally, and one who rains everywhere.
âNow what kind of person, bhikkhus, is like a rainless cloud? Here, a certain person is not a giver to anyone; he does not give food, drink, clothing, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, lodging, and lamps to recluses and brahmins, to the poor, destitute, and needy. This kind of person is like a rainless cloud.
âNow what, bhikkhus, is the kind of person who rains locally? Here, a certain person is a giver to some but not a giver to others. Food, drink, clothing, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, lodging, and lamps he gives only to some recluses and brahmins, to some of the poor, destitute, and needy, but not to others. This is the kind of person who rains locally.
âNow what, bhikkhus, is the kind of person who rains everywhere? Here, a certain person gives to all. He gives food, drink, clothing, vehicles, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, lodging, and lamps to all recluses and brahmins, to the poor, destitute, and needy. This is the kind of person who rains everywhere.
âThese, bhikkhus, are the three kinds of persons found existing in the world.â
Neither to recluses nor brahmins
Nor to the poor and destitute
Does he distribute his store
Of food and drink and goods;
That base person is called
âOne like a rainless cloud.âTo some he does not give,
To some he offers alms;
That one wise people call
âOne who rains only locally.âA person renowned for his bounty,
Compassionate towards all beings,
Distributes alms gladly.
âGive! Give!â he says.Like a great storm cloud
That thunders and rains down
Filling the levels and hollows,
Saturating the earth with water,
Even so is such a person.Having righteously gathered wealth
Which he obtains by his own effort,
He fully satisfies with food and drink
Whatever beings live in need.
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I crochet is that OK 
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you get no argument from me Laurence. DKervick made that remark. I think he may be happy to hear your take on it. 
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It seems there was an order of monks just like that, at the Buddhaâs time:
The problem I see in this discussion is, so far, people are using the common (puthujana) meaning of âworldâ, not the one clearly given by the Buddha, as, I believe, the meaning in his teaching. When I apply the meaning given to âworldâ by the Buddha, there is no contradiction for me in the Buddha choosing to spend most time alone in the forest and acting for change in those around him.
âthe world is found in this fathom-long body with its senses and perceptionsâ
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.045.than.html
In dealing with the suffering right before his eyes = compassion, he is not dealing with the world (an imagined thing = how someone thinks things are).
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more examples of âthe conceit âI amââ
Hi all
Reading the sutta and Vinaya, I find advice on how to be moral (ethical) (wish I had the reference), encouragement to keep social obligations (e.g. https://suttacentral.net/en/dn31) and even how to budget as a layman (wish I had the reference).
For me, the Buddha has and all Arahants have given up the world, which is to be found in this fathom-long body with its senses and perceptions.
It is because of that, that they can respond wisely and compassionately to the suffering they see before them, not the suffering they create or imagine in their mind (their world view).
best wishes
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Well, i suppose you could read it that way. i donât know why you are telling me about it. are you in charge of citing examples of conceit ie throwing the first stone so to say? nothing personal, just asking.
This is quite amazing. A river with legal status.
In switzerland there has been a lot of work done on giving animals the same legal status as humans but so far no rivers are on the list.
do you think we are becoming human at last?
What would a âsquirrelâs feeling placeâ be, I wonder.
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what is the meaning of the word âworldâ given by the Buddha? not a quiz. just curious.
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[When this was said, the Blessed One responded:] âI tell you, friend, that it is not possible by traveling to know or see or reach a far end of the cosmos where one does not take birth, age, die, pass away, or reappear. But at the same time, I tell you that there is no making an end of suffering & stress without reaching the end of the cosmos. Yet it is just within this fathom-long body, with its perception & intellect, that I declare that there is the cosmos, the origination of the cosmos, the cessation of the cosmos, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of the cosmos.â
Itâs not to be reached by traveling,
the end of the cosmos â
regardless.
And itâs not without reaching
the end of the cosmos
that there is release
from suffering & stress.So, truly, the wise one,
an expert with regard to the cosmos,
a knower of the end of the cosmos,
having fulfilled the holy life,
calmed,
knowing the cosmosâ end,
doesnât long for this cosmos
or for any other. - AN 4.45
Loka is the pali word usually translated as world but by Ven Thanissaro here as cosmos.
See also:
At SavatthÄ«. âBhikkhus, I will teach you the origin and the passing away of the world. Listen to that and attend closely, I will speak.â
âYes, venerable sir,â the bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:
âAnd what, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world? In dependence on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging; with clinging as condition, existence; with existence as condition, birth; with birth as condition, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. This, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world.
âIn dependence on the ear and sounds ⊠In dependence on the nose and odours ⊠In dependence on the tongue and tastes ⊠In dependence on the body and tactile objects ⊠In dependence on the mind and mental phenomena, mind-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving; with craving as condition, clinging ⊠existence ⊠birth; with birth as condition, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair come to be. This, bhikkhus, is the origin of the world.
âAnd what, bhikkhus, is the passing away of the world? In dependence on the eye and forms, eye-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving comes cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering. This, bhikkhus, is the passing away of the world.
âIn dependence on the ear and sounds ⊠⊠In dependence on the mind and mental phenomena, mind-consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, feeling comes to be; with feeling as condition, craving. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving comes cessation of clinging ⊠cessation of existence ⊠cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering. This, bhikkhus, is the passing away of the world.â
Then the Venerable Änanda approached the Blessed One ⊠and said to him: âVenerable sir, it is said, âEmpty is the world, empty is the world.â In what way, venerable sir, is it said, âEmpty is the worldâ?â
âIt is, Änanda, because it is empty of self and of what belongs to self that it is said, âEmpty is the world.â And what is empty of self and of what belongs to self? The eye, Änanda, is empty of self and of what belongs to self. Forms are empty of self and of what belongs to self. Eye-consciousness is empty of self and of what belongs to self. Eye-contact is empty of self and of what belongs to selfâŠ. Whatever feeling arises with mind-contact as conditionâwhether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasantâthat too is empty of self and of what belongs to self.
âIt is, Änanda, because it is empty of self and of what belongs to self that it is said, âEmpty is the world.ââ
However, the Buddha does not exclusively use world in this sense, sometimes he uses it in the common sense meaning.
At Savatthi. âBhikkhus, I do not dispute with the world; rather, it is the world that disputes with me. A proponent of the Dhamma does not dispute with anyone in the world. Of that which the wise in the world agree upon as not existing, I too say that it does not exist. And of that which the wise in the world agree upon as existing, I too say that it exists.
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Global corporate interests have obtained legal status as persons and can sue countries for damages even when their business involves tobacco, unsustainable fishing and, abuse of the environment in various ways. The natural world needs legal protection from these greed driven corporations and the indifference and abuse of careless human beings.
Sovereign nations can be sued by multinational corporations for protecting the environment and their people from exploitation. This legal provision is written into many international trade agreements.
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I had the impression that âworldlinessâ is about being caught-up in the 8 worldly concerns. Wise, kind and, compassionate behaviour for the benefit of one and all can be carried out without being caught-up in worldly concerns.
The world that ends with final release is this fathom-long body with its perception and intellect. With final release there is no more returning to any state of being.
While we are still present in this world we can still look after it as best we can! Surely, we should not abuse and vandalise nature and make it difficult for those yet to be born. Future generations will require a healthy and conducive environment for practice as well!
Not taking proper care of people and the Planet is not a sign of non-attachment born of Nibbida it is a sign of indifference and, ignorance.
Some can help a little some can help a lot but to stand-by and do nothing in the name of non-attachment is to misunderstand non-attachment. This does not mean we donât need time in seclusion in order to deepen in clarity and wisdom.
If we are not caught-up in worldly concerns and we practice the 3-fold training we are heading in the right direction. 
I totally agree that us laypeople have to get our act together and work for the betterment of the entire biosphere.
And if monks want to encourage, not criticize or obligate, but encourage people who are open to it to change their habits of consumption, to reduce impact on the planet, and encourage generosity to the poor and needy then thatâs great.
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