The bystander effect and the looming threat of ecosystem collapse

It looks like we have opposite perspectives on what to do to achieve to get to the same goal.

In my subjective world the thing that gets me going is looking after myself. I look after myself by looking after others. Then others look after me as we have a real relationship. It makes me happy to look after others and it makes other people happy too. Raising money for me (someone you have a weak connection with) is way weird im guessing because you think about yourself and the people who are significant in your subjective world. When people say be selfless and think of others first I say well come do what I want then. They never do. (im glad) They realise that their unselfish attitudes are actually hollow as just working for someone else and never themselves they never do. Im just guessing so if this is not the case I deeply apologise.

I looked on those websites and they are great ideas but what is there to do. Nod and then go drive to work.

If I combine my wholesome desire with adapting to change then I can make change in my own life. If I make change in my own life then I can help others make change in theirs.

I call it free market socialism driven by the wholesome desire of individuals. With snowballs one snowflake may start at the top of the mountain but as it rolls on with momentum going where it wants it brings together other snowflakes to make a ever larger ball of snow until at the bottom you have an avalanche. You could say the avalanche was started by one snowflake going in the right direction until there was an avalanche that moved the whole mountain. Avalanches never go from the bottom of a mountain to the top because of gravity. Movements never get going if they don’t go in the direction of our desires. We need to use our desires to achieve what we want because most of us are not strong enough to go against them.

Im not looking to shut anyone down. I want to know what your view is as together we are stronger.

I can’t say what others should do.

But there is a principle that Buddha gave to his son Rahula on what actions not to do, which I think is helpful for all of us:

MN 61
“When you want to act with the mind, you should check on that same deed: ‘Does this act of mind that I want to do lead to hurting myself, hurting others, or hurting both? …’ …”
"

We have to make choices, accept the consequences and we learn through that.
:anjal:

If I have hurt anyone I apologise. It wasn’t said with that intension. So I don’t repeat actions that hurt others again may I ask what the actions were :pray: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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You haven’t hurt me. As I see it you were concerned and honest. :slightly_smiling_face: But looking back at human history, it will take change in view and attitude rather than buying a new home to save our planetary Home from flooding and to clean our Oceanic swimming pool. Perhaps like shift from geocentric to heliocentric view of Earth?

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What we really need is the fusion reactors of alien space craft. :crazy_face: Tom Delonge (Blink-182) seems to be the man for that. Maybe if we honour the gods they will bless us with the tech we need. Do you think the gods prefere coke or pepsi? :joy:

So how does a heliocentric world view of earth play out in my subjective way of doing things?

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Ok then, apart from living simply that others may simply live, please see some of my work mainly as volunteer to help in this direction.

May all beings be well and happy. :anjal:

Thats a gold mine. In my personal life I have problems with meat overcosumption and a heavy fossil fuel consumption. The problem I have with not being a vegetation is I get very thin if I just eat plant products. They don’t fill me up. I put my full stomach before looking after that aspect. I would change it if I felt it could work for me. Do you have any advice? Is there any way to get our appendixes working?

While nuclear potentially has a role in certain cases, in Australia we have a massive abundance of renewable sources that are much cheaper.

Generally speaking, renewables are now much cheaper than nuclear, and getting cheaper, while the cost of nuclear is rising.

It’s interesting, you can see from this graph that the rapid decline in cost of solar panels seems to be flattening. That’s how it goes, technologies get cheaper when they’re young, then they tend to stabilize.

Nuclear energy will never get significantly cheaper, because the majority of cost is in fixed and mature materials such as steel and concrete. In Australia, it is not a serious option, and is basically only mentioned because right-wing commentators think they can use it to annoy and distract progressives. :man_shrugging:

We know perfectly well how to cut our emissions. The government just doesn’t want to do it.

The only country that’s massively investing in nuclear right now is China, with plans for 150 new reactors. Obviously China is in a unique position, and is currently in a huge energy crisis.

But they have special reasons for wanting lots of reactors that have nothing to do with addressing climate change. This is an example of how authoritarianism cripples any effort to act in the common good. It looks like Xi is setting China on a path to becoming a nuclear power on a par with the US and Russia. And that introduces massive new risk factors in any future scenario.

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Concrete is cheap. At least in the US, the majority of the cost is regulatory coming from public paranoia with no basis in science.

There is a topic on Suttacentral D&D dedicated to “Dhamma, Veganism and Vegetarianism”. I think that is a great place to share and receive support on that topic. Also, you may find the list of vegetarians at Wikipedia interesting and inspirational.

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Thankyou for your knowledge but without it are we the weaker system compared to backup of the small scale of population n army defences on this island too we will all perish as soon as they get hold of this land as it is in wealth then the new government takeover will do what it pleases to all citizens that reside here ? can our parliament be trusted to keep us all safe or are all we going to perish in the massive destruction of the terror of war and economy crisis wealth decisions … renewable energy vs a load of chemical warfare which is close to our shoreline and what is would be the reason they would spare our lives when the land has more wealth in iron ore minerals than what we are made of ? has anyone considered this during our covid crisis situation ? Slavery is easy to be replaced in any field or country dont you think ? Or is my mind out of scale to be reached with obscurity theories? I would like to know when I die is there a future for the people that we try to represent to become better in livings than us … can the UN do better ? Or is it just false hope to dream on … my children are a mess on all that is concerned …if they choose to have children here in australia to become their future too ? from them too are they putting them into slavery too ? …without the hardship of just floating around and lost with inconclusive solutions ? Excuse me of my thinkings as its frustrating to read for most as stated :pray:t2::electric_plug::woozy_face:i do hope our unity of peace come threw all that support in solutions that you have addressed …but who picks up the tab once again ? All things are imperative to last a generation or so ? how will this be paid ? all this breakdown in our countries or another in land fill when the ships​:ship: dumps all the waste out of or in our shorelines ? As whats recycled ? In matters ? Tradies for profit isnt helping with the responsibilities we bring does it irrespectively if its not their waste is ours ? Whose responsible for it ? Taxes n goverment wastings once again ? Seems if we are all guessing along the way once again … where does the wind fall when there is adjustments to the nature of climate change can science predict the radical changes in our eco system to point the best possibility to use this energy rescources positions? wind water n warm n cooling temperatures change dramatically over the years what country is fit to see effectiveness in this scale ? Clearing lands chopping trees using streams on mountains :mountain_snow: its all to be adjusted accordingly in a sensitive hemisphere… can we do it can we all substitute without more damage to our eco system now and ten years time to see this being a possibility ?

Not that cheap.

Concrete related material and construction cost is important in total cost (~25% of total plant
cost for 1970’s PWRs

Have you seen how bulky and overbuilt toasters were in the 1970s? Nobody’s building gen two reactors these days. We have many, much lighter-weight designs these days with much better safety profiles that don’t require all those high-pressure containment domes.

Cool! I mean look, I have nothing in principle against nuclear energy, it’s an incredible thing. But this is the kind of thing I’ve heard for such a long time. Then when I look for examples, I find, for example, that the 2020 report from China says:

No new approvals have been granted for the past three years, amid spiraling costs, delays for key projects and safety concerns about new technologies.

In Finland, a new reactor had a estimated cost of €3 billion, but ultimately cost €8.5 billion (!), amid multiple failures of planning and construction.

Or the new French one, where Wikipedia says of the latest reactor:

As of 2020 the project is more than five times over budget and years behind schedule. Various safety problems have been raised, including weakness in the steel used in the reactor.[1] In July 2019, further delays were announced, pushing back the commercial date to the end 2022.

They keep telling us the new designs will be cheaper, better, and safer, but actually building one is not easy.

Meanwhile we just keep building more solar and wind and it seems to work pretty well.

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Electric car tare weight is that excessive in batterystorage to go a limited distance the roads n bridges carparks and concrete will be loads to suit it’s builds to a certain maximum weight in them and to store them will turn concret into rubble in time more repairs more costs rego expenses up high margins battery recycle wastage the max in landfill when it comes will wearing out as to loads on trucks to stop in use in wet n dry unstable roads mean more accidents in breakage more work n wear more accidents because of overloads of weight distributed over good n services public transport ferries just as ships n submarines torpedos and weaponary planes :airplane: no way i would go on a plane loaded with heavy turbulent batteries
And for solar electricity will it cover street lights traffic lights railway lines in areas in distances and cities in industrial cables and technology in public waterstations dams overhauls machinery conversions and services facilities in repairs ? Besides our seasonal changes and reserves for the farming and country folk running businesses ? So much math for the brain teasers that have eco solutions to give out to all of us to share how much does the queen of england take take to then on taxes on and off our shorelines then ? Will counties share their energy levels then ? Will they have much to spare ? Yes im am a over thinker but i do care as we all do …can Australia and the royals get this right for our sake n theirs ? And the underprivileged counties will they gain wealth as the lose coverage in overcrowded built up populations ?

My friends in the industry (I hope I’m not misquoting them!) feel that it’s a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy: the public is scared and skeptical, so the regulators and engineers play it extra cautious, which causes all kinds of inefficiencies and delays as everything is second-guessed by everyone, and then that ballooning cost is used to justify the initial skepticism. Meanwhile climate change is just getting worse and worse. I can understand why they’re frustrated.

I cant wait til the day climate change pressures will bring out steam running engines and hydro energy is made that way for a cleaner environment and way of living but the goverment cant make money out of air n water can they or can they I wonder whats important to them in reality without profits in wealth spendings ? Go back to the steam day trains of wood n coal hmm clearing forest trees would be a no go unless farming trees could give wealth away once again residing here ? Wheres the positive thinking :thinking: :thought_balloon:
In eco studying i suggested to the professors that we should use bore water underground to make water consistency’s energy back in 2011 n they said that would be too expensive ! So thats when they suggested i chain myself to parliament gates to be heard of my advice in the act because the professors were only governed to teach what they were told to say so that rings a bell doesnt it 🥸:open_book::electric_plug:
While i was there i had a epthany to invent a natural energy compound made of corn starch n extractions in a sugar cube size for dangerous goods to reserve for natural disasters of flame extinguishment by extracting oxygen out of fuel tanks in a fire incidents for cars firetrucks farming machinery mining equipment ect … epithany csme from the time when the bush fires took lives of a group of firefighter trapped by a bushfire that surround their truck n took there lives … impacts like that make people want to make the world a better place to live in … if i had the back up like some do i would make the change from myself too all things are possible if you let them …

This topic reminded me of a short video Carl Sagan’s Pale Blue Dot.

Doesn’t it appear sad, foolish and shameful, from this detached bystander perspective, that many leaders, and rich and famous, compete, seek after wealth and fame, exploit free natural resources and other species and fight? But how to help them see impacts of their behaviour on larger scale, I am not really sure. Would people like the owners of Facebook and of other social media really understand the message of this video and the Buddha’s message and warning given to Kalamas in AN 3.65?

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