That is simply hilarious! 
Okay, but much of the time it was more like the People’s Front of Sri Lanka vs. the Gandharan People’s Front.
The primary driver of division was geography. Buddhists spread from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka within a century or two of the Buddha’s passing, and not long after that, to China as well. Yes, there were personal and doctrinal disputes too, and sometimes different sects would compete in the same place. But India is a huge place, and there’s plenty of room for a few different schools.
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that’s a great Buddhist movie script right there Bhante …
But seriously, so there were no schisms within the sangha that led to different schools (competing sects becoming competing schools over time, not immediately) within a smaller geographical area?
As an aside, It’s interesting you say
The geographical isolation of populations is a contributor to eventual loss of gene flow and a driver of speciation in evolutionary biology.
Reading through some of these ideas about attribution reminded me of a few passages from some early Mahayana Prajnaparamita texts. These passages come from the beginning of the texts, so they are anticipating needing to explain their own origins from the outset. Excerpts below are from Conze.
Version from the Astasahasrika Prajnaparamita Sutra:
Thereupon the Venerable Sariputra thought to himself: Will that Venerable Subhuti, the Elder, expound perfect wisdom of himself, through the operation and force of his own power of revealing wisdom, or through the Buddha’s might?
The Venerable Subhuti, who knew, through the Buddha’s might, that the Venerable Sariputra was in such wise discoursing in his heart, said to the Venerable Sariputra: Whatever, Venerable Sariputra, the Lord’s Disciples teach, all that is known to be the Tathagata’s work. For in the dharma demonstrated by the Tathagata they train themselves, they realise its true nature, they hold it in mind. Thereafter nothing that they teach contradicts the true nature of dharma. It is just an outpouring of the Tathagata’s demonstration of dharma. Whatever those sons of good family may expound as the nature of dharma, they do not bring into contradiction with the actual nature of dharma.
Version from the Prajnaparamita Ratnagunasamcaya Gatha:
The rivers all in this Roseapple Island,
Which cause the flowers to grow, the fruits, the herbs and trees,
They all derive from the might of the king of the Nagas,
From the Dragon residing in Lake Anopatapta, his magical power.
Just so, whatever Dharmas the Jina’s disciples establish,
Whatever they teach, whatever adroitly explain—
Concerning the work of the holy which leads to the fullness of bliss,
And also the fruit of this work—it is the Tathagata’s doing.
For whatever the Jina has taught, the Guide to the Dharma,
His pupils, if genuine, have well been trained in it.
From direct experience, derived from their training, they teach it,
Their teaching stems but from the might of the Buddhas, and not their own power.
This idea that these matters happen “through the power of the Buddha(s),” seems to be more of a distinctively Mahasamghika idea that was inherited by some Mahayana sutras. Their conception of buddhahood was seemingly more mystical. Consider the following thesis held to be true by the Mahasamghikas:
The Buddha never says a word because he remains in constant concentration, but beings jump for joy at the thought that he is speaking.
The Buddhist context in which this type of thesis would be held to be standard and orthodox is now culturally quite distant from us.
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Bhante wrote a whole book on the subject: https://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Sects__Sectarianism_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf.
I apologize for the delayed response: I was not so well for few days.
Perhaps he was! But maybe, at the appropriate times, “nitpickiness” is necessary.
Wisdom is the point, but I see it necessary to remind myself that that wisdom is carried by the words; and while some words in any given sentence are probably negligible, some aren’t. It depends on the word, situation, and so on, I think. Like the Chinese say, “Off by a hair, wrong by a thousand miles” (差之毫厘謬以千里)
May I state first for clarification that I was no way referring to the verbatim transmission of the words of the Buddha? I was referring the Buddha’s purported emphasis on the importance of linguistic precision in communication–in particular, in communicating/receiving teachings.
But, concerning the idea that “the verbatim words of the Buddha don’t actually exist anymore,” I don’t know if that’s actually true or not. Obviously, there are those in this forum who are far more expert than I with respect to the possibility of the preservation of the Buddha’s words; but, to me, that’s a categorical answer being given to a question to be answered by being set aside (or, at the very least, analyzed).
Still, what I do find interesting, though, is that what I hear Chinese people say–凡是善言都是佛説的–is indeed a verbatim preservation of the (perhaps) 2,500 year-old yaṃ kiñci subhāsitaṃ sabbaṃ taṃ tassa bhagavato vacanaṃ arahato sammāsambuddhassa, excepting the substitution of a simple “Buddha” for the fuller epithet of the Pāli. I know it’s just a small example, but (again, disregarding whether it actually goes back to the Ven. Uttara himself or not) I still think it reflects well on the ability of the chain of transmission to preserve words intact: it reflects well on the Indian bhāṇakas’, the Sino-Indian translation teams’, and finally the Chinese people’s, not just ability, but also commitment and dedication to faithfully preserving words (if perhaps not the wisdom, in this case).
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After spending over a year translating parallels and comparing texts, it’s my conclusion. Am I absolutely certain? Well, no, but there’s just too much variation overall for me to think we have much of what the Buddha taught. Maybe we do, but which version is it? The basic problem to knowing, which to me is unsolvable, is that the history of what exactly happened during the early period of Buddhism is gone. So, it’s possible to imagine all sorts of things that seem plausible, but it’s not possible to really know. Maybe someday we’ll develop time travel and someone will go and see, like the historians of Connie Willis’s Doomsday Book.
In lieu of really knowing, we can work with what still exists. I personally would like to see experiments with combining the sectarian canons in some way. Maybe identify all the common teachings. Maybe collate all the parallels in some fashion. Maybe make a deep philosophical comparison and find the core ideas and select sutras from either canon that seems the “best” representative. Something that brings back together and unifies what was divided in ancient times by regional and language differences.
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Indeed, that would be great! But I think it can’t happen until we have good translations across the board. Hopefully what we’re doing will contribute to that.
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Richard Salomon says that at this point we just have to accept that there are/were “many Buddhisms.” When he says that, he’s expressing a sentiment common in Buddhist academic circles. That isn’t a phrase or idea he came up with himself. Anyway, until we find the “missing link” of Buddhist texts, we can’t objectively claim otherwise. Dr. Salomon usually touches on this idea in his talks or writings aimed at non-academics. Here are two great videos of him discussing his work with the Gandhari birch bark manuscripts:
https://www.loc.gov/item/webcast-8586/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YHvXkoPvSE.
I believe he mentions the “many Buddhisms” idea in at least one of them.
I think that what constitutes “the true teachings of the Buddha” will continue to be a matter of personal decision/faith, even if we do find ancient texts that definitively prove what the EBT are. It’s not as if every Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhist in the world is going to change their beliefs. Many will still probably say that the Prajnaparamita sutras, other Mahayana sutras, and tantric texts were still hidden, revealed, or secretly passed down, and the emergence of some ancient Pali texts doesn’t change anything. I think it will probably only be scholars and the EBT crowd who are impacted by the finding of such texts.
Having said that, I’m very interested in what future discoveries and scholarship will reveal. There is also much to be gained from current scholarship on EBT (like the ongoing discussion related to the discriminatory aspects of the bhikkhuni patimokkha).
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The moderators decided to close this thread, as it seems to have run its natural course.
If specific issues arise a new thread could be started, or the moderators contacted to request a reopening.
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