"The formless attainments are not included in the earliest teachings..."

Hi Bhante, thanks for your reply. :hugs:

Perhaps I mischaracterized the text in that way before, but I did consider your opinion, and when I said “their practice does not lead to enlightenment” I actually meant their whole system, the practice being whatever complete path they taught, not just the practice of the formless meditation. Sorry, I should have made that more clear. Because I agree, it is clear that if the Buddha did indeed attain the formless attainments under his teachers, as the text do say, he did not reject these states per se. He taught them many times. So then he must have rejected something else.

But that still leaves me with questions. If it was just their theory which was wrong, why did the Buddha not realize before his awakening, “Ah, right view (or vipassana or whatever) is the path!” Instead he specifically said he now realized jhana is the path to awakening. (MN36) If what was new to his approach was not the samādhi but the view, this statement to me is just out of place. The way I read it, it also feels very much like the jhana was contrary to whatever else he had tried during his quest, including whatever he did under Alama Kalama and Ramaputta.

To me it also doesn’t answer why he recalled the jhana of his earlier days, not the meditation under his former two teachers. I can’t agree with your assessment in the other thread: that what was different about his earlier attainment of jhana was that it wasn’t couched in theory. Because we’re never told this anywhere, nor are we told what theory Alara Kalama or Ramaputta would have taught, only that they taught the formless attainments. Again, if the theory is what made the difference, why did the Buddha not focus on that? Both the former-teachers story and his account of how he did discover enlightenment seem to focus on samadhi, not view. His recollection while his father was working also states nothing beyond the standard jhana formula. And if right view was made all the difference, when sitting under the Jambu tree he apparently had no right view either, so that’s doesn’t seem to be the point. (PS: For those interested, in the sutta it never says he was a child at the time. I think that’s from the commentaries.)

And it also doesn’t answer why, if he indeed was so proficient in the formless attainments to the extent he was asked to lead his former teachers’ followings, he still feared the jhanas later.

In the other thread you say:

If it’s a narrative detail, then perhaps in reality he didn’t actually attain these states. Let’s assume his former teachers were indeed brahmins. What if he just understood the theory? Because for brahmins theory or conceptual knowledge was generally deemed enough, as we tend see in the Upanishads (yo evaṃ veda). Then to me the story would make sense.

To perhaps support this a bit, the Buddha does not literally say that under his teachers, “I entered the state of nothingness”, or “I entered the state of neither-perception-or-non-perception.” He just said he realized that dhamma that his teachers declared. His conclusion that these dhammas only lead to rebirth in those states was made before his enlightenment, so could simply have been wrong. In other words, his teachers taught rebirth in such a state based on a certain theory, but it wasn’t really the case, and they didn’t really attain the real formless states.

To put another engineering theory out there. :smiley:

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Hey,

Eh, well, that’s how well it is supported in the texts… that it’s basically always presented in that manner!

Maybe. It would be interesting to list which suttas actually state this as a possibility and then see how explicit it is. It could just be editorial oversights rather than doctrinally motivated. It would have been very easy, for example, to accidentally insert a standard passage somewhere it doesn’t really belong or switch the order around—things like that are not at all uncommon in the suttas.

I know these suttas make such a statements:

  • MN52 and its parallels
  • AN9.36

On the other hand there are suttas like AN6.68 that say: “It is impossible that one who does not fulfill right concentration will abandon the fetters,” where fulfilling right samādhi seems to mean the fourth jhāna. Also the seven awakening factors culminate in equanimity, which is in is highest sense is usually reserved for the fourth jhāna. Or even just the definition of the path factors. Just like right action involves not killing, not stealing, and no sexual misconduct (or in SN45.8, no sex at all), and not just one of those, it seems like right samādhi must involve all four jhānas, not just the first.

But perhaps that’s all a bit off topic.

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There are a number of descriptions of the Buddha’s awakening. With, as Bhante Sujato said, different stories, i.e. emphasis on different aspects of what he was teaching.

In MN36 he was answering the question:

“Surely you must have had feelings so pleasant or so painful that they could occupy your mind?”

In MN26 the theme was:

“Bhikkhus, there are these two kinds of search: the noble search and the ignoble search. …"

In Snp4.15 he talks about the motivation for the search in quite a different way from MN26 or MN36.

I saw this population flounder,
like a fish in a little puddle.
Seeing them fight each other,
fear came upon me.

In SN12.65 the story of awakening revolves around dependent origination.

Then, through proper attention, I comprehended with wisdom:
‘When rebirth exists there’s old age and death. Rebirth is a condition for old age and death.’

It seems that story has the “vipassana” aspect.

Just speculation on my part, but, getting into the story-telling theme, this makes a much better story than “I realised that my teachers had it 90% right, but they were missing a bit of right view”. How pedestrian, how disappointingly derivative :rofl:. Much more impressive to use the story of childhood jhana, which emphasises “I discovered (rediscovered in SN12.65) the way myself, not because of my teachers.”

Furthermore, the formless attainments (and higher jhanas) are based on equanimity, leaving behind pleasure (as well as pain), so would not fit into the question addressed in MN36, which had to do with pleasure and pain.

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The only real story is…i do not know really what happened.

I am not even sure he really looked for the end of rebirth. Yes, i know this is said in many sutta’s but it is also said in the very early texts he was in fear seeing the world and sought a home for himself, which i understand as a refuge , safety. Looking for a safe place. Just finding oneself again after one has becoming very anxious realising one is about to decay, become seriously ill and die.

I personally believe Buddha’s story is all about ending fear. Fear is the real disturbance.
Fear of life, fear of sickness, fear of change, fear of living, fear of pleasure, fear of fettering, fear of instability, fear of violence.

MN26 describes how the Bodhisattva visited Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta in search for the supreme state of sublime peace. My story is…the unconditioned…because only the unconditioned, i.e. that what is not seen arising and ceasing, can be a supreme state of sublime peace, certainly not some state that can cease. That’s why he was not satisfied with the peace of those sublime states of his teachers.

But during jhana he met a sublime peace and probably he understood that this peace is intrinsic to the nature of mind without defilements. Now he started to focus on removing defilment in a definitive sense and not only supressing them via jhana. That is the Path to the Unconditioned, the supreme state of sublime peace.

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Why do you separate fear and rebirth?
If no rebirth, then no further bhava and no fear can arise. How can there be fear if nothing is born?

Regarding the “unconditional” you write about, same thing. If there are no conditions then there can be no bhava, rebirth, fear, death, etc.

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Why not? Do people or other beings who do not have any clue of rebirth, do not fear change, fear decay, fear violence, fear death?
Most people have no clue about rebirth, at least in my part of the world, but fear is very present.

With respect, my response was not about folks who might not “have a clue about rebirth” but about the Buddha’s teachings on it and the importance of rebirth.

Rather than “fear” being the basis for the Buddha’s quest and teachings, as I understood your post to be about, the response offered was how there can’t be fear if there’s no birth or rebirth in the first place. :pray:

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I have a personal view that Āḷāra Kālāma & Uddaka Rāmaputta were annihilationists. There are subtle hints at this in the suttas. For example the suttas say that out of all the non-Buddhadhamma doctrines, annihilationism was the best

‘I would not be, neither would there be what is mine. I will not be, neither will there be what is mine.’

This view is said to be close to non-clinging and out of all of the speculative metaphysics doing the rounds at the time, this is said to be the foremost view:

(8) “Bhikkhus, of the speculative views held by outsiders, this is the foremost, namely: ‘I might not be and it might not be mine; I shall not be, and it will not be mine.’ For it can be expected that one who holds such a view will not be unrepelled by existence and will not be repelled by the cessation of existence. There are beings who hold such a view. But even for beings who hold such a view there is alteration; there is change. Seeing this thus, the instructed noble disciple becomes disenchanted with it; being disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate toward the foremost, not to speak of what is inferior.

AN 10.29: Paṭhamakosalasutta—Bhikkhu Bodhi (suttacentral.net)

We are then told elsewhere that upon his awakening the Buddha wanted to find Āḷāra Kālāma & Uddaka Rāmaputta, his former teachers, as they would easily grasp the Dhamma and awakening. Sadly, they had already died but the fact that he sought out Āḷāra Kālāma & Uddaka Rāmaputta first could perhaps be because they held the foremost view among the ascetics, namely the annihilationist doctrine. This would match the general character of the annihilationist doctrine, which is close to non-clinging, and would explain their use of the formless attainments. The suttas also associate the formless attainments with annihilationist views, as Venerable Anālayo points out

DN 1 at DN I 37,1 and its parallels DĀ 21 at T I 93b20, T 21 at T I 269c22, a Tibetan discourse parallel in Weller 1934: 58,3 (§191), a discourse quotation in the *Śāriputrābhidharma, T 1548 at T XXVIII 660b24, and a discourse quotation in D 4094 ju 152a4 or Q 5595 tu 175a8. The same versions also attribute the arising of annihilationist views to the immaterial attainments (for Sanskrit fragments corresponding to the section on annihilationism see also Hartmann 1989: 54 and SHT X 4189, Wille 2008: 307).

We see this again in MN 140, where it suggests that entry into the formless is to tend towards non-existence

“He understands thus: ‘If I were to direct this equanimity, so purified and bright, to the base of infinite space and to develop my mind accordingly, this would be conditioned. If I were to direct this equanimity, so purified and bright, to the base of infinite consciousness…to the base of nothingness…to the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception and to develop my mind accordingly, this would be conditioned.’ He does not form any condition or generate any volition tending towards either being or non-being. Since he does not form any condition or generate any volition tending towards either being or non-being, he does not cling to anything in this world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbāna. He understands thus: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being.’

MN 140: Dhātuvibhaṅgasutta—Bhikkhu Bodhi (suttacentral.net)

When we look at the parallels, the parallel to SN 47.31 even explicitly states that Uddaka Rāmaputta was an annihilationist:

"Uddaka Rāmaputta had this view and taught like this, “Existence is an illness, a tumour, a thorn. Those who advocate nonperception are foolish. Those who have realized [know]: this is tranquil, this is sublime, namely attaining the sphere of neither-perception-nor-nonperception.”

The Discourse on Uddaka [Rāmaputta] - MĀ 114

With all this in mind then, if the Buddha’s two teachers were practicing a form of annihilationism I think we get the following narrative from these texts. The Buddha-to-be, recognising the suffering inherent to existence, sought out a way to end “his” existence. However, after practicing with the foremost annihilationists of his time (Āḷāra Kālāma & Uddaka Rāmaputta) he came to realise that that Dhamma merely leads to another subtle form of existence, and so suffering would still be. Next then he attempts to master pain, as through mastering pain his mind will be untroubled and nibbāna obtained. Pain however is always pain. It cannot be anything else but pain. It can be tolerated, but mastering pain still does not bring about the total peace the Buddha-to-be is looking for. Next then he tries the Jhāna which, interestingly, are associated with the eternalists. With being, rather than non-being. Through this he finds refined states of mind which are peaceful, but even these lofty states are impermanent. They cannot be maintained, and so are still subject to dukkha. Finally then, upon realising the conditionality of all of these states he lets go. When the narrative then tells us, with these assumptions, is that the Buddha first sought out non-being. He then tried asceticism and forceful control of the mind. Finally he then tried blissful states of being. Finding all three to be unsatisfactory (non-being, being and asceticsm) he finally let go and found true peace which doesn’t depend on any conditions, namely nibbāna.

Now with all this, what was wrong with the formless attainments isn’t so much the attainments themselves. It’s as Bhante said, the view and so the clinging to these attainments. As such, for those who incline towards them, they can also be a basis for liberation if viewed correctly. One can understand that there never really is someone there who suffers to begin with, and so following the dimming and annihilation of the mind (via Nothingness and Neither perception-nor non-perception) merely creates more of the same suffering one was trying to escape from to begin with. Āḷāra Kālāma & Uddaka Rāmaputta then were so close to nibbāna. It was merely their subtle clinging to conditioned attainments, because of the view that “they” were real and so suffered, which held them back.

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It is literally said in sutta nipata 4.15:

-“Peril stems from those who take up arm
just look at people in conflict!
I shall extol how I came to be
stirred with a sense of urgency.

I saw this population flounder,
like a fish in a little puddle.
Seeing them fight each other,
fear came upon me.

The world around was hollow ,
all directions were in turmoil.
Wanting a home for myself,
I saw nowhere unsettled".

Ok, well, no one is denying that fear is not a component or aspect of dukkha. It’s just that if what you wrote was expressing the opinion that the Buddha’s teachings are all about fear, I think that leaves out the many forms of dukkha he spoke about.

The above verses may express some fear, but they also importantly point to the development of saṁvega, nibbida, and virāga – necessary factors for inclining the mind to nibbāna.

We all know the Buddha taught "…dukkhassa ca nirodhaṁ, the cessation of dukkha, not just the cessation of fear.

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Ah … yeah, my thoughts exactly. At last we are in agreement about something! (You’re still not listening to the story.)

He literally begins by talking about memorizing texts. Obviously it was about theory.

Still missing the point: he had no view, he was a child. He had no idea what was happening.

Perhaps, in fact, he was a down-at-heel purveyor of second-hand sea shanties. Alone in his house by the docks, he drank whiskey as he pined for his lost love, a woman he saw only once at a bar in Belgium. That night, the barmaid’s skirt lingered too long by the fire as she chatted with some of the rowdier customers, and in their drunken carousing, her petticoats caught fire. The flames leapt up and spread through the bar, as the formerly laughing customers screamed and panicked. He saw this woman, her name as unknown as everything else about her, only for a second as she gazed through the flames. Her eyes were pale, so clear and piercing he felt like someone was looking through his soul.

And that’s when he decided the practice of jhana was the path to enlightenment.

Or, and I’m just throwing this out there, we could try listening to what the text is saying. :person_shrugging:

No, the story is what is written in the texts. We are here to discuss the meaning of a text.

OMG thank you! Like a man who stumbles upon the ruins of an ancient city, at last someone is talking about this passage as it actually is, a story. With drama, plot, characters, with unexpected twists, with setup, with follow-through. The story has a meaning that can’t be reduced to its components.


I’m sure I sound unduly combative here, but I feel like I’ve been banging at this drum for years, more than a decade, to no avail.

It’s like everyone is looking at the suttas the same way we look at classical statues. They’re beautifully, austerely white. Pristine marble. Except of course, they were never meant to be seen like that. They were brightly colored!


We need to move beyond reading the suttas in greyscale.

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The formless exists as a natural outcome of form, so any meditation on the body for example implies formlessness:

“The property of the dimension of the infinitude of space is discerned in dependence on form.”—Samyutta Nikaya 14.11

This ‘dependence’ method of recognition is a basic mechanism of Theravada, and is also used to discern the unconditioned element from the earliest stages of practice:

" There is, monks, an unborn[1] — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned.[2]—Udana 8.3

The psychologists will opine: "The use of “hear” was a variation of a Freudian slip, as the writer subconsciously linked this word to the “banging” of a drum. There are currently no ways to treat this.

The neurophysiologists will say: “Clearly this is a demonstration of the subcortical connections between the left temporal area of Broca with the interpretive/executive functions of the prefrontal cortex.”

The philosophers will say: "Since there is fundamentally no “here” here, the writer was clearly pointing to this truth through the medium of using a phonically identical word, albeit one with a different meaning, as a way of conveying a categorical truth. Let us now retire to the parlor for tea, further discussion, and hearty laughter.

Bob the plumber will say: “Typo.”

:slightly_smiling_face:

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Lol, thanks so much! I’ve fixed my post, but this comment should be preserved for posterity. It reminds me of why you can’t parse HTML with regex.

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Ah! :man_facepalming: Beginner’s Mind! Excellent! How did I miss that connection before? :pray:

Basically the only good part of TikTok :laughing:

:clap: Hear hear! Let us not lose sight of the trees. :evergreen_tree: :evergreen_tree:

I’m pleased that you used the right hear here Bhante… :rofl:

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As I understand, the way to get to formless dimensions before the Buddha’s discovery of form jhanas was through “faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom.” This path was the path that his two teachers followed.

I considered: ‘Not only Āḷāra Kālāma has faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom. I too have faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom. Suppose I endeavour to realise the Dhamma that Āḷāra Kālāma declares he enters upon and abides in by realising for himself with direct knowledge?’ MN26

However, this path does not require to give up sensual pleasures, it does not require seclusion. It simply leads to finer and better sensual pleasures, and be able to enjoy those sensual pleasures with the order of angels there.

“Again, monks, a monk has faith, morality, learning, generosity, and wisdom. He has heard, ‘The angels in the domain of infinite consciousness… the angels in the domain of infinite space… the angels in the domain of nothingness… the angels in the domain of neither perception nor non-perception have longevity, beauty, and a lot of pleasure.’ He thinks, ‘When I am separated from my body, after dying, may I be reborn as an angel in the domain of neither perception nor non-perception!’ …Monks, this is the practice which leads to that kind of rebirth. MN120

The Buddha was looking for freedom from ageing, sickness, death, sorrow, and defilement .

Then I considered thus: ‘Why, being myself subject to birth, do I seek what is also subject to birth? Why, being myself subject to ageing, sickness, death, sorrow, and defilement, do I seek what is also subject to ageing, sickness, death, sorrow, and defilement? Suppose that, being myself subject to birth, having understood the danger in what is subject to birth, I seek the unborn supreme security from bondage, Nibbāna. Suppose that, being myself subject to ageing, sickness, death, sorrow, and defilement, having understood the danger in what is subject to ageing, sickness, death, sorrow, and defilement, I seek the unageing, unailing, deathless, sorrowless, and undefiled supreme security from bondage, Nibbāna.’(MN26)

The path that he learned from his teachers did not lead him to his goal since it only lead him to a finer dimension with more sensual pleasures. Without being able to get rid of what is subject to birth, ageing, sickness, death, sorrow, and defilement, he cannot escape from them. So he recalled:

‘I recall that when my father the Sakyan was occupied, while I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I entered upon and abided in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. Could that be the path to enlightenment?’ Then, following on that memory, came the realisation: ‘That is indeed the path to enlightenment.’

“Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states” This is the key! This is what happened when he was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree! Seclusion without sensual pleasures and unwholesome states. This is the path to enlightenment. This will lead to lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to peace, to direct knowledge, to enlightenment, to Nibbāna.

That discovery leads to what we called form Jhanas. We need to give up sensual pleasures, unwholesome states and be in a secluded place. The pleasure we get here is the pleasure born of seclusion. Not sensual pleasures. This is the pleasure that has nothing to do with sensual pleasure. This is the way to end the fetters and lead us to liberation.

Since form jhanas can lead us to liberation by having the knowledges in the four jhana. Therefore, we do not need to get into formless jhanas to do so. However, if we wish, we can also get into formless jhanas too.

If a practitioner or a monk has faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom, he can get to formless jhanas, but cannot get to form jhanas. If he removes the five hindrances (which including removing sensual pleasures and unwholesome states)and be in seclusion, he then can get to form jhanas and from there he can move to formless jhanas if he wishes.

If he wishes to get to liberation through formless dimensions, he will need to turn his mind away from the five aggregates while he is in those formless dimensions (To do this, he must give up the sensual pleasures that he may get while he is in those dimensions.) Doing so, it will lead him to the cessation of feeing and perception.

Again, by completely surmounting the base of infinite consciousness, aware that ‘there is nothing,’ a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of nothingness.

“Whatever exists therein of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness, he sees those states as impermanent, as suffering, as a disease, as a tumour, as a barb, as a calamity, as an affliction, as alien, as disintegrating, as void, as not self. He turns his mind away from those states and directs it towards the deathless element thus: ‘This is the peaceful, this is the sublime, that is, the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all attachments, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.’ If he is steady in that, he attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the destruction of the taints because of that desire for the Dhamma, that delight in the Dhamma, then with the destruction of the five lower fetters he becomes one due to reappear spontaneously in the Pure Abodes and there attain final Nibbāna without ever returning from that world. This is the path, the way to the abandoning of the five lower fetters.”(MN64)

That’s how I understand.

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Quoting Bhante Analayo’s A Comparative Study of the Majjhima-nikaya here:

The Mahāsaccaka-sutta and its Sanskrit fragment parallel report that this took place when his father was engaged in work and the bodhisattva was seated under a Jambu tree, without specifying his age. The Pāli commentaries indicate that at this time the bodhisattva was still an infant, with the Milindapañha suggesting that he was only one month old.In the Mahāvastu account of this former jhāna experience, however, the bodhisattva is already a young man. According to the sequence of events in the Buddhacarita and the Sanghabhedavastu, this first jhāna experience happened just before he went forth.

Thus, according to most versions, the bodhisattva’s experience of the first jhāna took place when he had already grown up. Representations of this first jhāna experience in ancient Indian art also depict the bodhisattva as an adult, not as a small child. This would better fit the general sequence of events, since a jhāna experience just before going forth could be seen as a powerful incentive for the bodhisattva to take the decisive step and embark on a spiritual life. In contrast, a jhāna experienced as an infant would not stand in such a direct relation to his decision to go forth. To decrease the age at which this first jhāna was attained, however, clearly enhances the marvel of this experience. Thus, perhaps the tendency of enhancing the marvels and wondrous feats of the bodhisattva was responsible for the way the Pāli commentaries and the Milindapañha present the first jhāna experience of the bodhisattva.

The individual Chinese translation that parallels part of the Mahāsaccaka-sutta differs from the other sources, as it places this first jhāna experience after the bodhisattva had gone forth. Notably, this placing would fit with the main thrust of the autobiographical account given by the Buddha in the Mahāsaccaka-sutta, whose purpose is to illustrate that from the time of his going forth pleasant or painful feelings had not overwhelmed him. From this perspective, it would be more natural for the Buddha to bring up a jhāna experience he had after going forth, instead of a jhāna experience that happened before he went forth. The great majority of sources, however, agree that this jhāna experience happened before he went forth.

For why the bodhisattva should remembered only first jhana experience after he mastered immaterial spheres from his two previous masters, Bhante Analayo said:

A closer inspection of the formulation in the Mahāsaccaka-sutta makes it clear that the point at stake is not the first jhāna as such. The decisive insight obtained by the bodhisattva at this point rather appears to be that the happiness experienced during jhāna need not be feared, as this happiness is aloof from sensual attraction. From this perspective, it would be less important whether the jhāna he remembered took place before or after he went forth, in fact a jhāna experienced before his going forth would be a fitting starting point for developing a new approach to awakening, as this experience happened spontaneously and without a teacher.

In contrast, any jhāna practice undertaken under the tuition of Ālāra Kālāma would presumably have been experienced with a particular perspective on the nature and significance of the experience of jhāna, perhaps considering jhāna as merely a stepping-stone to the immaterial attainments. From such a perspective, the happiness of the first jhāna may have been perceived as something coarse that one needs to leave behind, since to indulge in such happiness could become a hindrance for further progress towards the immaterial attainments.

The bodhisattva’s insight into the nature of the happiness of jhāna would stand in contrast to such an attitude and also in contrast to his earlier belief that freedom from dukkha cannot be reached through something that involves the experience of happiness. The decisive insight at the present junction of events thus appears to be that
happiness per se is not a problem, as wholesome types of happiness can be conducive to awakening.

This shift of perspective throws into relief the all-important distinction between what is wholesome and what is unwholesome, a distinction that runs like a red thread through the early discourses. Based on this shift of perspective, the bodhisattva would then have used the same jhānas that earlier led him to the immaterial attainments as a basis for developing the three higher knowledges.

To quote the MN 36 here:

Then it occurred to me, ‘I recall sitting in the cool shade of the rose-apple tree while my father the Sakyan was off working. Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, I entered and remained in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. Could that be the path to awakening?’

Stemming from that memory came the realization: ‘That is the path to awakening!’

Then it occurred to me, ‘Why am I afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities?’ Then I thought, ‘I’m not afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities.

Then I thought, ‘I can’t achieve that pleasure with a body so excessively emaciated. Why don’t I eat some solid food, some rice and porridge?’ So I ate some solid food.

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Yes, i know, but i think fear is very fundamental. Fear is very closely related to the idea and perception of self. To identify with body and mind. Being protective. Protecting body and mind, protecting ones status, protecting possession, protecting health, protecting wealth, protecting the fulfilling of needs, protecting our life, protecting good name, fame, etc etc.

I once read that an element of fear is the root of all disturbing emotions. Of becoming conceited, jalous, greedy, angry. Maybe a psycholigist here can comment on this.

I know, ending dukkha is still more, but i think that regarding to mental suffering in this life, fear is very elementairy.

I do not know exactly what Buddha motivated to his search.

Sure. The texts are clear. Buddha visited these two teachers to search for the supreme state of sublime peace . That was his aim. His drive. And he did not find this supreme peace in their teachings nor in their realisations, in short, not in their Dhamma. He was not satisfied with it. In the end he just knew that this was not a supreme peace but only a temporary peace.

I see this as a central theme in Canon. The Buddha did not search for what is conditioned, temporary and does not see this as refuge nor as reliable nor as worth pursuing. It is called an ignoble search.
It is the search of the world, no spiritual search.

I think the Buddha was from the beginning of his search aware that anything conditioned and temporary cannot be a refuge, island, safety, basis of perfect peace.

That he saw jhana still as path to enlightment cannot be because of their temporary nature. It must have another reason.
What reason, i feel, is speculation.