The foundational practice according to the prose collections in synopsis

Discussion
1

At:

VN1 (by which I mean Bu Pj 1) and at:
DN2 DN3 DN4 DN5 DN6 DN7 DN8 DN9 DN10 DN11 DN12 DN13
MN4 MN6 MN19 MN27 MN36 MN38 MN39 MN51 MN53 MN60 MN65 MN73 MN76 MN77 MN79 MN85 MN94 MN100 MN101 MN107 MN112 MN119 MN125
SN6.3 SN12.70 SN16.9 SN16.11 SN51.11
AN3.58 AN4.198 AN5.75 AN5.76 AN10.99

And especially the IMO early form of it at PP2.4 There is a piece of prose that I think is demonstrably central and universal in the sutta pitaka preserved in pali.

All the canonical collections acknowledge it, quote from it, expand on it, distil from it, and rely on it.

It is the universal theme of the silakhandhavagga.

It is well attested to in all the Chinese parallels, in particular at DA20 as well as Sanskrit and Tibetan.

The standard example in the Pali is at DN2:40.1 beginning:

idha mahārāja tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ sammāsambuddho vijjācaraṇasampanno sugato lokavidū anuttaro purisadammasārathi satthā devamanussānaṁ buddho bhagavā

“Consider when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those who wish to train, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed.

By trimming the synonyms and extraneous details it is possible to summarize this deeply important document in it’s essential details in about 22 lines, give or take.

This I have attempted to do below.

It appears to me that the practice as it is described here is describing three equivilent practices; sense restraint, (@Jayarava ) mental purification (overcoming the hinderences), and “jhana” which is probably better referred to as “bodily purification” or “the cleansing through pleasure”.

Ethical restraint, restraining the mind from the senses, purifying the mind of the sensory/sensual influences, experiencing physical tranquility, knowing the stilling of the influences, is the practice described.

Anyway, would love feedback, questions, opinions, furthur reading advice, etc etc.

:slight_smile:

Metta.

The Perfection of Wisdom in 126 words:
(or the perfection of wisdom in 22 lines)

pāṇātipātaṁ pahāya nihitadaṇḍo adinnādānaṁ pahāya dinnādāyī abrahmacariyaṁ pahāya ārācārī musāvādaṁ pahāya saccavādī

1. Abandoning killing, having laid down weapons, abandoning stealing, accepting what is given, abandoning sex, pure in conduct, abandoning lies, a truth speaker:

manasā dhammaṁ viññāya na nimittaggāhī hoti saṁvarāya paṭipajjati rakkhati manindriyaṁ manindriye saṁvaraṁ āpajjati

2. With mind a phenomenon having known, not a sign grasper is, control undertakes, guards the mind faculty, in the mind faculty control achieves.

so abhikkante paṭikkante sampajānakārī hoti

3. They, going forward or back, fully aware are.

vivittaṁ senāsanaṁ bhajati so pacchābhattaṁ nisīdati pallaṅkaṁ ābhujitvā ujuṁ kāyaṁ paṇidhāya parimukhaṁ satiṁ upaṭṭhapetvā

4. Frequenting a secluded place, they, after the meal, sit cross legged and straight backed, applying that mindfulness right there and then;

abhijjhaṁ loke pahāya vigatābhijjhena cetasā viharati

5. Wanting in the world abandoning, free from wanting, with a mind free from wanting dwells.

byāpādapadosaṁ pahāya abyāpannacitto viharati

6. Hate abandoning, with a peaceful mind dwells.

thinamiddhaṁ pahāya vigatathinamiddho viharati

7. Sloth abandoning, free from sloth dwells.

uddhaccakukkuccaṁ pahāya anuddhato viharati

8. Restlessness abandoning, unagitated dwells.

vicikicchaṁ pahāya tiṇṇavicikiccho viharati

9. Doubt abandoning, free from doubt dwells.

savitakkaṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ upasampajja viharati

10. With thought born of seclusion joy and pleasure attaining dwells.

avitakkaṁ samādhijaṁ pītisukhaṁ upasampajja viharati

11.Without thought, concentration born, joy and pleasure attaining dwells.

pītiyā ca virāgā upekkhako upasampajja viharati

12. Joy and dispassion equanimous attaining dwells.

sukhassa ca pahānā dukkhassa adukkhamasukhaṁ upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ upasampajja viharati

13. Abandoning pleasure and pain, the purity of an equanimous mind attaining dwells.

so ime āsavāti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti

14. They “these are the influences” as they really are knows.

ayaṁ āsavasamudayoti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti

15. “These are the manifestations of the influences as they really are knows.

ayaṁ āsavanirodhoi yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti

16. “This is the end of the influences” as it really is knows.

ayaṁ āsavanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti

17. This is the way to the end of the influences as as it really is knows.

tassa evaṁ jānato evaṁ passato

18. For those thus knowing and thus seeing;

kāmāsavāpi cittaṁ vimuccati

19. From the influence of sensuality the mind is liberated.

bhavāsavāpi cittaṁ vimuccati

20. From the influence of existing the mind is liberated.

avijjāsavāpi cittaṁ vimuccati

21. From the influence of ignorance the mind is liberated.

vimuttasmiṁ vimuttamiti ñāṇaṁ hoti

22. In liberation, the knowledge “is liberated” is.

probably i need to make clear that I take it that “9. Doubt abandoning, free from doubt dwells.” implies enlightenment already. a mind with certainty about the dhamma is awake.

the rest should flow natrually from there.

probably I have to say that I do not see any credible case against the fundamental jhana sequence being:

(mental) joy and (physical) pleasure with (mental) thinking.
(mental) joy and (physical) pleasure without (mental) thinking.
(mental) joy and (mental) dispassion in balance.
(physical) pleasure and (mental) dispassion in balance.

thinking, emotional (joy), to
not thinking, emotional, to
not emotional, bodily pleasure, to
not bodily pleasure, (and thus beyond pleasure and pain)

and therefore

Tranquil in body and mind.

The straight forward structure of the instruction, it’s neat resonance with the abyakata, the comprehensive nature of the subject, that is rational, emotional and physical, and many other factors render the idea that “thinking in first jhana doesn’t mean thinking” and “body in jhana doesn’t mean body” as, as I say, untenable.

Metta.

2

I do not think that when you seek a secluded place and meditate, you really abandon doubt, sensual desires, hate, sorrow and worries about the world etc. At best they are surpressed for somet time. But as anusaya they remain. Ready to arise again any moment. The temporary absence of defilement can be even a bit misleading and give rise to conceit.

One is not a sotapanna according the suttas, as you know, when there is still a tendency to become uncertain, undecided, or with still a tendency to become heavily on fire through hate and sensual desires. Often that is still the case, i believe, also for those who can enter and abide in jhana. Most of the time defilements are not absent due to real purification, but only due to the absence of circumstances or conditions that give rise to them.

In Jhana defilements are only surpressed for a while and only seemingly absent.

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3

What are your reasoned arguments for all the items listed here are “the foundational practice” in EBTs?

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4

Basically, though I hope to do your question more justice later;

There are three great living canons of the teachings of the buddha.

One is in Chinese, one is in Tibetan, and one is in Pali.

These three living canons all contain an “asavanirodha patipada” the passage I am discussing.

Of these living canons, the Pali is the only one preserving a middle indo aryan prakrit like the one the buddha must have spoken.

If it is the case that all three living canons and all four prose sutta collections do rely on the asavanirodha patipada as an accepted piece of canonical buddhist teaching then it is without doubt the first major piece of prose in the canon.

It is after all literally the first major theme of the first major division of the first major collection of the only living canon of buddhist thought in a middle indo aryan prakrit.

The fact that both the other major living traditions acknowledge the passage as canonical, and reproduce it IDENITICALLY shows us this is as close as we can get to the real deal, at least as far as prose is concerned, but also as far as a UNIVERSAL buddhism as one can get.

This being the case we should read the core points of this teaching as likely the first time it was put into systematic prose.

I think plenty of the poetry sounds earlier to my ear, but what do I know, I just work here.

Regardless, the passage is certainly older than the aggregates teaching, which as I keep pointing out, appears to be discernably later than the canonization and near editorial closure of the long collection sans the parinibannasutta and index suttas.

The arguments for which I give much more fully in other threads as I am sure you are aware.

5

Well what I am saying is that the canonical teaching of the buddha is that one does.

If you do not think it can be done that will be a hindrance to you.

I believe in you!

6

Oh, and of course, all the items listed here are direct quotes from the passage I am talking about, obviously.

7

Yes, there is a temporary supression of defilements, such as in jhana, and there is definitive uprooting of all defilements, Nibbana, kilesaparinibbana, peace, the cessation of suffering, the stilling of all constructing activities (no grapsing present anymore), detachment. But you know all this. Going into the woods and meditate does, ofcourse, not mean that one really immediately uproots all asava.

8

Nobody said that it does, not me, nor the passage I quote from.

9

Finally I take the sutta at SN12.70, and especially the version of same at SA347 to difinitivley confirm that the original teaching was the patipada passage and only subsequently was anatta and aggregates taught to those who would be “liberated by wisdom”.

They had by then forgotten what the Buddha taught Kassapa;

sātasahagatā ca me kāyagatāsati na vijahissatī
SN16.11

Metta.

10

You have rediscovered The Gradual Training! :slightly_smiling_face: :bouquet:
Here’s a great resource which might be of help to you on your journey.

11

No I have not.

I am familiar with this chart and posted it here before, it is sorely out of date and fails to capture in anything like sufficient detail just how many suttas are under the influence of the asavanirodhaagamani patipada.

What about MN4, MN6, MN19 just for starters?

Thanissaro is perfectly entitled to point out that by MN70 the doctrine was what it was, this has no bearing on the passage which is clearly earlier than MN70, and plenty of people awoke “suddenly” like Kassapa after seven days, and Sariputta after hearing the teaching for the first time, and tons of other examples.

I dislike the term “gradual training” I am aware of its canonical provenance and it still doe not sway me as a term for the “way to the ending of the asavas” passage.

If I ever say patipada, its the passage i am describing. not MN70, not the Udana, but

DN2 DN3 DN4 DN5 DN6 DN7 DN8 DN9 DN10 DN11 DN12 DN13
MN4 MN6 MN19 MN27 MN36 MN38 MN39 MN51 MN53 MN60 MN65 MN73 MN76 MN77 MN79 MN85 MN94 MN100 MN101 MN107 MN112 MN119 MN125
SN6.3 SN12.70 SN16.9 SN16.11 SN51.11
AN3.58 AN4.198 AN5.75 AN5.76 AN10.99

and plenty more.

12

The chart doesn’t even have SN16.11 !! for pities sake. It’s one of the most important pieces of text in the canon as it relates to the patipada!

13

MN4 for starters gives us such gems as

anabhijjhālūhamasmi
mettacittohamasmi
vigatathinamiddhohamasmi
vūpasantacittohamasmi
tiṇṇavicikicchohamasmi

for the overcoming of the five hinderences and

Āraddhaṁ kho pana me, brāhmaṇa, vīriyaṁ ahosi asallīnaṁ, upaṭṭhitā sati asammuṭṭhā, passaddho kāyo asāraddho, samāhitaṁ cittaṁ ekaggaṁ.
My energy was roused up and unflagging, my mindfulness was established and lucid, my body was tranquil and undisturbed, and my mind was immersed in samādhi.

as a preamble to the jhana trope.

MN19, again, not in the chart, gives us

‘uppanno kho me ayaṁ nekkhammavitakko.
‘This thought of renunciation has arisen in me.

So ca kho nevattabyābādhāya saṁvattati, na parabyābādhāya saṁvattati, na ubhayabyābādhāya saṁvattati, paññāvuddhiko avighātapakkhiko nibbānasaṁvattaniko’.
It doesn’t lead to hurting myself, hurting others, or hurting both. It nourishes wisdom, it’s on the side of freedom from distress, and it leads to extinguishment.’

Rattiñcepi naṁ, bhikkhave, anuvitakkeyyaṁ anuvicāreyyaṁ, neva tatonidānaṁ bhayaṁ samanupassāmi.
If I were to keep on thinking and considering this all night …

Divasañcepi naṁ, bhikkhave, anuvitakkeyyaṁ anuvicāreyyaṁ, neva tatonidānaṁ bhayaṁ samanupassāmi.
all day …

Rattindivañcepi naṁ, bhikkhave, anuvitakkeyyaṁ anuvicāreyyaṁ, neva tatonidānaṁ bhayaṁ samanupassāmi.
all night and day, I see no danger that would come from that.

Api ca kho me aticiraṁ anuvitakkayato anuvicārayato kāyo kilameyya.
Still, thinking and considering for too long would tire my body.

Kāye kilante cittaṁ ūhaññeyya.
And when the body is tired, the mind is stressed.

Ūhate citte ārā cittaṁ samādhimhāti.
And when the mind is stressed, it’s far from immersion.

So kho ahaṁ, bhikkhave, ajjhattameva cittaṁ saṇṭhapemi sannisādemi ekodiṁ karomi samādahāmi.
So I stilled, settled, unified, and immersed my mind internally.

Taṁ kissa hetu?
Why is that?

‘Mā me cittaṁ ūhaññī’ti.
So that my mind would not be stressed.

and

Yaññadeva, bhikkhave, bhikkhu bahulamanuvitakketi anuvicāreti, tathā tathā nati hoti cetaso.
Whatever a mendicant frequently thinks about and considers becomes their heart’s inclination.

Nekkhammavitakkañce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu bahulamanuvitakketi anuvicāreti, pahāsi kāmavitakkaṁ, nekkhammavitakkaṁ bahulamakāsi, tassaṁ taṁ nekkhammavitakkāya cittaṁ namati.
If they often think about and consider thoughts of renunciation, they’ve given up sensual thought to cultivate the thought of renunciation. Their mind inclines to thoughts of renunciation.

Abyāpādavitakkañce, bhikkhave …pe…
If they often think about and consider thoughts of good will … their mind inclines to thoughts of good will.

avihiṁsāvitakkañce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu bahulamanuvitakketi anuvicāreti, pahāsi vihiṁsāvitakkaṁ, avihiṁsāvitakkaṁ bahulamakāsi, tassa taṁ avihiṁsāvitakkāya cittaṁ namati.
If they often think about and consider thoughts of harmlessness … their mind inclines to thoughts of harmlessness.

In it’s preamble to the same passage, again, not in the chart, again, amongst clearly the earliest and most vitally important commentary on the patipada.

14

Apparantly i have misunderstood the meaning of your words. Now i understand that you mean: maybe in time people will abandon doubt.

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