The jhana metaphor

I have been reading the patipada passage at DA20 in close comparison with the same passage at DN2 (where it is given in full, where it occurs in DN3, it’s original location it is truncated).

It always used to bother me how weak the metaphor for the fourth jhana seemed in comparison to the others.

Now I have had a “sudden insight” and it all makes sense.

There aren’t four metaphors for the four jhanas, its just one, extended metaphor.

(1) the bath powder is prepared.

The “bathroom attendent” sprinkles the bath powder with water, thinking good thoughts over and over until the mind is happy and the body becomes pleasant.

(2) the bath is filled

The happiness and pleasure fill the mind and body like a spring filling a pool.

(3) you take the bath.

The pure lotus of your body/mind emerges from the mud of pain and you experience unadulterated pleasure. pure physical pleasure is the bath.

(4) you get out of the bath!

The fourth jhana is the leaving behind of the pleasure, it is the getting out of the bath! the metaphor is not some weird analogy of white cloth wrapped around a person like a mummy, it’s the metaphor of getting our of the bath and drying yourself off with your towel!.

The idea is that having experienced the pure pleasure (or comfort, or ease, or whatever english you like) that is a complete “contact” (worst english ever) with “sukkha” you get out of it because with right understanding you have used “sukkha” to cleanse yourself of “dukkha” and now that the bath has served it’s purpose you get out of the bath and experience actaully being clean and dry, i.e adukkhamasukhaṁ, upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ.

This extended metaphor of the purifying bath makes perfect sense in the context of the time, when ritual purification through bathing was a well understood idea to the brahminical culture at the time.

So there you go, the four jhanas are like the four stages of taking a bath.

Does anyone know if this observation has been made before, and if there is a source for better understanding the brahminical practice of ritual purification through bathing (especially if it involves discussion of soap?)

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I shouldn’t think it likely, given that only the first simile says anything at all about taking a bath, and that the tenors and vehicles of all four similes are transparent and readily identifiable.

Simile 1
Tenor: being filled with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion.
Vehicle: being like thoroughly moistened bath powder.

Simile 2
Tenor: being filled with rapture and pleasure born of concentration.
Vehicle: being like a lake filled with cool water.

Simile 3
Tenor: being wholly filled with pleasure divested of rapture.
Vehicle: being like lotuses fully immersed in cool water.

Simile 4
Tenor: being wholly pervaded by equanimity.
Vehicle: being like someone wholly enveloped in cloth.

It seems quite forced and unnatural to me to take the four similes as anything but discrete and independent of each other.

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Yes I would have said the same thing without the parallel reading.

Im at the coles but i have more to say.

When i get back.

Are you talking about this?

“It’s like when a person bathes and washes themselves. They then put on fresh, white cloth to cover their body and make themselves pure.

Bathing and putting on clean clothes is a thing. I also wouldn’t tend to read more into this. People took baths to get themselves actually clean too.

Also, I never imagined this person was wrapped up like a mummy. Just that they had a white cloth draped over them completely. I realize it may seem like an odd thing to do, but I can imagine it being a way to keep off insects and blowing dust.

When the Buddha gives a complex simile, I think he usually gives the whole thing and then explains all the parts at once. If that was his intention he could have easily done that.

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yes, and the part in T20 that says;

佛告阿颰:「我沙門捐棄諸欲,奉行經戒,以斷生死,則於今世,無復憂哭相戀之意。吾不貪人,人亦不貪我。而吾以道慈念一切,欲使度脫。夫人為道,一世苦耳。不為道者,其苦彌長。如人沐浴,但可外淨,心垢不除;得應真者,眾惡都除。

First of all I don’t think that these texts are reporting anything the buddha said, anything like how he said it, they are literary productions, developing over centuries, and I am no longer employing the hermeneutic principle of “how would the Buddha have said it?” literally the only evidence we have is the texts as we have them, so any idea we make up about how the Buddha would have talked is derived from these texts, not the other way round.

Second, I take it that this passage is almost certainly older than any other piece of prose text in the canon, so it is, in my assessment, to put the horse before the cart to use the later development of the prose, which in a decisive plurality of cases is an exegesis on this exact piece of text, to read back anything in particular about how this piece of text “aught” to be.’

Yes, and so is sprinkling bath powder with water. and so is filling a bath before you get in (and filling a pool is what a spring does), and so is immersing yourself in the water (like an underwater lotus is immersed), and so is getting out of the bath and drying yourself, i.e removing the water from your body.

If the water is sukkha, and it washes of the dukkha, then drying off the water is the removing of sukkha, at which point, cleaned of dukkha, and dried of sukkha, you are out of the bath and adukkhamasukhaṁ.

I mean I think that is already off the table no? the similes are at least individually applying to the jhanas, it’s not just a sequence of descriptions of jhana followed by an unrelated story about water in various contexts because that’s “a thing”.

I mean, again, they are categorically not discrete and independent form each other, they are connected by the four jhanas that they are attached to, so they are, definitionally, not “independent”.

And again, look at the 4th similie there, in the first, you sprinkle this dry powder with water until it’s something that sticks together, is moist, is literally saturated with water, all the way through, in the second similie, the spring fills up the lake, the whole volume of the crevase is actually filled all the way through with water, that being what a lake is, again, the analogy holds, and the lotus is in the water, it is completely submerged, completely surrounded, and, importantly, completely free of mud.

Now look at the cloth simile. the pure bright mind is suddenly “spread” not “steeped”, and the cloth covers the surface of the body, it does not penetrate through, what is the idea here? why would we move form images of depth and volume to images of surface and spreading?

you dry a surface that has been wet.

Sure, it’s new to you, and you are used to thinking about them the way you think about them, but to me, as I say, it was a sudden flash of inspired “aha!” and everything clicked.

So to me, it seems like a really reasonable thing to imagine that the metaphor as it orignially stood was a complete one, moving through all four jhanas in a consistent way, and for me, this makes the cloth metaphor much more natural and straightforward, as if the water in the metaphor is pleasure, and the goal of the teaching is (at this stage in it’s conceptual development as a religious literature) was “neither-pain-nor-pleasure”, then continuing with water analogies doesn’t work, and a drying cloth makes sense.

again, is it not very much like taking a bath (at least the way I do it) to be

?

Anyway

Well, I had the thought, so I don’t see why others wouldn’t have, especially those with an interest in ritual purity through immersion in holy waters, a subject I seem to remember is repeatedly dealt with in verse in the suttas.

Metta.

What I meant is that the vehicles of the similes are independent of each other, such that it would be an error to interpret one simile’s vehicle in the light of another’s. That is, they are “independent” in the same sense that the nine similes for sense pleasures in MN22 are independent. Even though each of MN22’s similes aims at illustrating the peril of sense pleasures, it doesn’t mean that one should interpret, say, the simile of the skeleton in the light of, say, the simile of borrowed goods.

You seem to be proceeding as if there were a common thread to your similes’ vehicles, as in MN29 and MN30, where each simile’s vehicle shares the common thread of looking for heartwood of a tree. But in your jhāna similes there is no vehicular element that is shared by all four, only a tenorous element.

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yes, I suppose you are right, I am proceeding like that, I am not sure what you mean by “vehicles” and “tenors” and “elements”, is this is a commentarial method? or just standard lit crit terminology?

anyway, the sequence involves sprinkling water on something dry, then allowing something to fill up with water, then having something be fully immersed in water, then having something be covered with a clean cloth, these ideas fit together perfectly, why not read them that way?

I can’t be the only person to see that the analogy holds all the way through, regardless of whether it was intended to or not, it does.

Anyway, you said

But DA20 also has in the 4th place;

It’s like when a person bathes and washes themselves. They then put on fresh, white cloth to cover their body and make themselves pure.
DA20

So we go from 25 percent of the similes to 50 percent which helps my cause no?

finally, the defense cites MN39;

Ayaṁ vuccati, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ‘samaṇo’ itipi ‘brāhmaṇo’itipi ‘nhātako’itipi ‘vedagū’itipi ‘sottiyo’itipi ‘ariyo’itipi ‘arahaṁ’itipi.
This mendicant is one who is called an ‘ascetic’, a ‘brahmin’, a ‘bathed initiate’, a ‘knowledge master’, a ‘scholar’, a ‘noble one’, and also a ‘perfected one’.
MN39

And MN7;

‘Khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyā’ti pajānāti.
They understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.’
Ayaṁ vuccati, bhikkhave:
This is called
‘bhikkhu sināto antarena sinānenā’”ti.
a mendicant who is bathed with the inner bathing.”

Suddhassa ve sadā phaggu,
For the pure in heart it’s always
Suddhassuposatho sadā;
the spring festival or the sabbath.
Suddhassa sucikammassa,
For the pure in heart and clean of deed,
Sadā sampajjate vataṁ;
their vows will always be fulfilled.
Idheva sināhi brāhmaṇa,
It’s here alone that you should bathe, brahmin,
Sabbabhūtesu karohi khemataṁ.
making yourself a sanctuary for all creatures.
MN7

:slight_smile:

Oh and for anyone interested:

and

and

and

and

Yeah, it all depends on one’s beliefs and assumptions. It’s easy to come up with new interpretations and theories. I’m glad you are happy with your conclusion. I just don’t find it convincing. The texts themselves explain the meaning of the similes. There is no need to add anything to them.

BTW:

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To be fair I didn’t ask.

I asked:

I now realize I misspoke.

the powder would be herbs, not soap.

So I guess I’ll ask again, do you @Snowbird or you @Dhammanando, or anyone else here, know of any academic sources that discuss ritual bathing in the MIA context, especially sources that discuss the herbal preparations likely involved in the bath attendants procedure?

I am happy to live without anyone’s assessment of how “convincing” my ideas are, unless they are couched in actual information about the texts or academic secondary literature about said texts. :slight_smile:

I like your findings. Thank you!

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I’m afraid my knowledge of pre-modern bathing practices is pretty much limited to the baðstofur of early Iceland.

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Thanks, I will add it to my reading list, I find it all quite fascinating, but so far the Wikipedia articles are deplorably vague :slight_smile:

I would also love any leads on transliterations of the sanskrit fragments referd to as SHT26 and SF43 if thats more in your wheelhouse :slight_smile:

Oh, and btw I have just found the Tibetan parallel from the chapter of medicines in the Vinaya at;

Well, it could be either, since the referents of these terms are literary universals

In Pali a simile is an upamā. Its vehicle is an upamāna and its tenor is an upameyya. The meaning of these terms in commentarial usage is essentially the same as that in Snowbird’s link.

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In the second simile, where does your “allowing” come from? In the sutta the water just wells up.

Just as though there were a lake whose waters welled up from below and it had no inflow from east, west, north, or south, and would not be replenished from time to time by showers of rain, then the cool fount of water welling up in the lake would make the cool water drench, steep, fill, and pervade the lake, so that there would be no part of the whole lake unpervaded by cool water…

And in the third simile, where does your “having something be” come from? In the sutta the lotuses just happen to be growing there.

Just as, in a pond of blue or red or white lotuses, some lotuses that are born and grow in the water thrive immersed in the water without rising out of it, and cool water drenches, steeps, fills, and pervades them to their tips and their roots, so that there is no part of all those lotuses unpervaded by cool water…

In contrast with the first and fourth similes, there’s no human agency at all in the vehicle of the middle two similes.

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Hmm. I have looked into it, and the terminology was invented by I.A Richards in the 20th century, somewhat redundantly (and dare I say it pretentiously) imho.

upamā upamāna and upameyya seem much more straightforward, imo.

I am afraid Iwill not be able, for reasons of my particular mental temprement, to remember Mr Richards terminology, feel free to use the pali, or just say “subject” and “figure” or really anything in idiomatic english that doesn’t force me to think of a vehicle and a tenor, neither of which evoke in my mind anything like (similar?) to a subject and it’s figurative example.

It comes from the praxis of the second jhana, you allow your body to fill up with (internally arising) pleasure like a lake filling up form an internal spring.

similarly with the third thing.

I don’t really see how the way I am phrasing myself should present any significant difficulty to a competent interlocutor, and i also don’t see how it’s relevant to the points I make, both phrasings could obviously be adjusted to suit someone’s who’s sensibilities differ.

I mean that’s just too bad for the “vehicles” isn’t it? because there is absolutely certainly human agency involved in abandoning your family, shaving off your hair and donning robes to sit under a tree all day intently trying to experience “the bliss of the noble ones” isn’t there?

anyway, while exploring the above mentioned Tibetan parallel I have discovered that they preserve more verses!

“Agnihotra is the best of sacrifices.
The best of verses is Sāvitrī.
The best of humans is a king.
The ocean is the best of water bodies.
The moon is chief among celestial bodies.
The sun is the sovereign among all lights.

“Above, below, all around,
In all the modes of existence of beings,
In the world including gods,
The best of those who speak is the perfectly awakened one.”

It’s not directly relevent, but I just wanted to share :slight_smile:

SO we have both a Dharmaguptaka and a Mūlasarvāstivāda as well as the Therevada, all preserving the same metaphors, and I might add, that the Mūlasarvāstivāda preserves the steady flame metaphor also, so that is 2 out of 3.

“Then he abandons happiness, too. Since he has already abandoned pain, and his longing and despair have also disappeared, he dwells having achieved the fourth dhyāna, which is neither happy nor painful, but completely clear, with equanimity and mindfulness. Thus, delighted, he dwells with his body filled with a clear and pure mind, complete.

6.­113

“As an analogy, if a householder or a son of a householder covers his head, hands, and feet with eight or nine cubits of cloth, there is, on his [F.77.a] whole body from head to toe, no part that is not covered or has not been covered with pure, clean cloth. So, too, he dwells delighted, with his body filled with a clear and pure mind, complete. In his body there is no part that is not filled or has not been filled with a clear and pure mind, complete.

6.­114

Ambāṣṭha, when a noble disciple has abandoned happiness and, since he has already abandoned pain, and his longing and despair have disappeared, he dwells having achieved the fourth dhyāna, which is neither happy nor painful, but completely clear with equanimity and mindfulness, his mind is neither weak nor faint. Because he dwells with neither weakness nor faintness, he is able to dwell steadfastly.

6.­115

“It is just as, for instance, when a seed oil lamp is lit on the top of a house or on a terrace on the top of a house, being not agitated or shaken by the wind, or by a bird, or by a person, or by a nonhuman, its flame grows neither weak nor faint. Since it is neither weak nor faint, it blazes steadfastly. So too, Ambāṣṭha, when a noble disciple has abandoned happiness, and, since he has already abandoned pain, and his longing and despair have also disappeared, he dwells having achieved the fourth dhyāna, which is neither happy nor painful, but completely clear with equanimity and mindfulness, his mind is neither weak nor faint.

As we can see the Mūlasarvāstivāda text does not agree with the Dharmaguptaka about the 4th similie, and it appears to mangle the 5th similie too (how would putting an open flame on a terrace keep it out of the wind?)

It does agree with the Dharmaguptaka about the string through the gem metaphor being about seeing the mind in he body and moving that mind into the mind made body.

But I am still trying to figure out the details.

Suffice it to say that the 3, DN3, DA20 and VV6 are all damn near identical, and certainly miles closer to each other than any are to T20

It would be odd if the Buddha used ritual bathing as a metaphor for jhanas one to four. He specially ridicules ritual bathing in the following sutta.

The simile of the soap ball is apt because getting the body immersed in the pitisukha of the first jhana takes a bit of practice (a bit of trial and error). I think that’s the take away from the simile. I don’t think it’s a set up for what comes next.

What comes next is a spring welling up in a lake. Ie. the source of the pitisukha doesn’t have to be arbitrarily brought about. It just flows continuously from the source. So, “immersing” yourself in a full bathe of water just doesn’t capture the continual flow of the spring well. A jacuzzi would be more apt IMO.

I don’t get the third simile at all (so no comment here). I’ve asked myself many times: Why a blue lotus, why red, why white? Why not yellow? That would at least cover all the kasinas? So, yes the plants are immersed. But don’t you think the colours are relevant? Colours are used in other similes by the Buddha …

The fourth jhana. My take on that is that the equanimity of adukkhaasukha is so pure that the aura of the mendicant is literally bright white, as if his body was wrapped from head to toe in white cloth. Do you wrap your self from head to toe in any kind of cloth after emerging from a bath? Maybe during a mummification ceremony … :person_shrugging:

In any event, the relative simplicity of the fourth simile always appealed to me. It meant that all of the process and complication of the previous three were abandoned. I’ve always reserved interpretation of adukkhaasukha. I’ve always been hesitant to think of the term as a dismissive term. And I find it much more useful as an inclusive term. IMO it is supposed to mean something (as opposed to simply being what it doesn’t mean)

Here’s that sutta I mentioned. BTW. Your interpretation is sound and I would imagine it came as a brilliant insight. You deserve some recognition for it. It’s fairly coherent. But I’m afraid I don’t quite agree with it and because there are discrepancies between your interpretation and the progression of the similes into different “vehicles” (as Bhante put it), I’m more inclined to take the similes as referring to states which share qualities but should be understood as different in reference to their “modes” (if that makes sense. And … oh yeah … not that you asked for my opinion :wink:).

  1. Now at that time the brahman Sundarika Bharadvaja[18] was seated not far from the Blessed One, and he spoke to the Blessed One thus: “But does Master Gotama go to the Bahuka River to bathe?”

“What good, brahman, is the Bahuka River? What can the Bahuka River do?”

“Truly, Master Gotama, many people believe that the Bahuka River gives purification, many people believe that the Bahuka River gives merit. For in the Bahuka River many people wash away the evil deeds they have done.”

  1. Then the Blessed One addressed the brahman Sundarika Bharadvaja in these stanzas:[19]

Bahuka and Adhikakka,[20] Gaya and Sundarika, Payaga and Sarassati, And the stream Bahumati — A fool may there forever bathe, Yet will not purify his black deeds. What can Sundarika bring to pass? What can the Payaga and the Bahuka? They cannot purify an evil-doer, A man performing brutal and cruel acts. One pure in heart has evermore The Feast of Cleansing[21] and the Holy Day;[22] One pure in heart who does good deeds Has his observances perfect for all times. It is here, O brahman, that you should bathe[23] To make yourself a safe refuge for all beings. And if you speak no untruth, Nor work any harm for breathing things, Nor take what is not offered, With faith and with no avarice, To Gaya gone, what would it do for you? Let any well your Gaya be!

I believe the Pāli commentaries preserve a reading where the cloth refers to someone after a bath. It’s very possible that this was an exegetical reading that some schools then added into the text, whereas the Theravādins preserved it in the commentary.

You can find this at page 146 of Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation of DN 2 with its commentary, available from the BPS.

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