SuttaCentral
Hi ,
Is there any other plain translation for this part ? Does it refer to all kind of experiences that we go through ? Or the feeling itself whenever there is arising of feelings ?
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.146/en/bodhi
This body , the mind etc is old kamma, to be seen as generated and fashioned by volition, as something to be felt.
Mendicants, this body [group] doesnāt belong to you or to anyone else.
NÄyaį¹, bhikkhave, kÄyo tumhÄkaį¹ napi aƱƱesaį¹.
Itās old deeds, and should be seen as produced by choices and intentions, as something to be felt.
PurÄį¹amidaį¹, bhikkhave, kammaį¹ abhisaį¹ khataį¹ abhisaƱcetayitaį¹ vedaniyaį¹ daį¹į¹habbaį¹.
SN 12.37
I mean the meaning āto be feltā , is it similar to the meaning of āto be experiencedā , both emotionally and physically ?
And what is old action?
KatamaƱca, bhikkhave, purÄį¹akammaį¹?The eye is old action. It should be seen as produced by choices and intentions, as something to be felt.
Cakkhu, bhikkhave, purÄį¹akammaį¹ abhisaį¹ khataį¹ abhisaƱcetayitaį¹ vedaniyaį¹ daį¹į¹habbaį¹ ā¦peā¦The ear ā¦ nose ā¦ tongue ā¦ body ā¦
jivhÄ purÄį¹akammÄ abhisaį¹ khatÄ abhisaƱcetayitÄ vedaniyÄ daį¹į¹habbÄ ā¦peā¦mind is old action. It should be seen as produced by choices and intentions, as something to be felt. mano purÄį¹akammo abhisaį¹ khato abhisaƱcetayito vedaniyo daį¹į¹habbo.
This is called old action.
Idaį¹ vuccati, bhikkhave, purÄį¹akammaį¹.
SN 35.146
to be felt as in sensation, as when one feels a pain when poked in the eye.
vedaniya
ptp. could be felt; experienceable; tangible; lit. to be felt [āvid + *aniya]
or in more detail, from VedanÄ :
VedanÄ (f.) [fr. vedĖ;: see [vedeti](javascript:void(0)); cp. Epic Sk. vedanÄ] feeling, sensation (see on term, e. g. Cpd. 14 Mrs. Rh D. B. Psy., ch. iv.) D i.45; ii.58 (cp. Dial. ii.54), 66 iii.58, 77, 221, 228, 238 (Ė[upÄdÄna]; S iii.86 sq.; A i.39, 122, 141; ii.79, 198, 256; iii.245 sq., 450; iv.301 385; Kh iii. (tisso v.); Sn 435, 529, 739, 1111; Nd1 109 Nd2 551 (tisso v.); Ps i.6, 50 sq., 145 sq., 153 sq. ii.109 sq., 181 sq.; Vbh 135 sq., 294, 401, 403 sq. Dhs 3, 1348; Nett 27, 65 sq.; 83, 123, 126; Tikp 246 317 sq., 345 sq.; Vism 460 sq.; DA i.125; VbhA 13 sq. 39 sq., 80, 178, 193, 221 (ĖĆ¢nupassanÄ, in detail), 263 sq. 382 (various). ā Three modes of feeling (usually understood whenever mention is made of ātisso vedanÄā) sukhÄ (pleasant), dukkhÄ (painful) adukkha ā m ā asukhÄ (indifferent) D iii.275; S ii.53, 82; iv.207; A iii.400 It 46; Tikp 317 sq. ā or: kusalÄ, akusalÄ, avyÄkatÄ Vism 460. ā Five vedanÄs: sukhaį¹, dukkhaį¹, somanassaį¹ domanassaį¹, [upekkhÄ] Vism 461. Categories of 2 to 108 modes of VedanÄ, S iv.223 sq. ā vedanÄ is one of the 5 khandhas (see [khandha]ii.B). ā On relation of old and new sensations (purÄį¹aĖ>navaĖ) see e. g A ii.40; iii.388; iv.167; Vism 33; and see formula under [yÄtrÄ]. ā In the Paį¹iccasamuppÄda (q. v.) vedanÄ stands between [phassa] as condition and [taį¹hÄ] as result; see e. g. Vism 567 sq.
It seems to mean to only feel it rather than cling to it, per the below:
Itās for one who feels that I declare: āThis is sufferingā ā¦ āThis is the origin of sufferingā ā¦ āThis is the cessation of sufferingā ā¦ āThis is the practice that leads to the cessation of sufferingā. AN 3.61
when they experience any kind of feelingāpleasant, unpleasant, or neutralāthey meditate observing impermanence, dispassion, cessation, and letting go in those feelings. Meditating in this way, they donāt grasp at anything in the world. Not grasping, theyāre not anxious. Not being anxious, they personally become extinguished. MN 37
Having given up favoring and opposing, when they experience any kind of feelingāpleasant, unpleasant, or neutralāthey donāt approve, welcome, or keep clinging to it. As a result, relishing of feelings ceases. When their relishing ceases, grasping ceasesā¦ MN 38
Mendicants, this body [group] doesnāt belong to you or to anyone else.
NÄyaį¹, bhikkhave, kÄyo tumhÄkaį¹ napi aƱƱesaį¹.
Itās old deeds, and should be seen as produced by choices and intentions, as something to be felt.
PurÄį¹amidaį¹, bhikkhave, kammaį¹ abhisaį¹ khataį¹ abhisaƱcetayitaį¹ vedaniyaį¹ daį¹į¹habbaį¹.
daį¹į¹habba
future passive participle adjective
- to be seen; to be considered as
I recall previous discussions about this, where it was questioned what the ādaį¹į¹habbaā applies to.
Bodhi & Sujato seem to apply the daį¹į¹habba to the volition & feelings, as follows:
But Buddhadasa & Thanissaro, for example, applied the daį¹į¹habba to the old kamma, as follows:
Say there is a feeling of joy arisen , you experience the joy , that feeling of joy is an old kamma ? You felt the joy .
mano purÄį¹akammo abhisaį¹ khato abhisaƱcetayito vedaniyo daį¹į¹habbo.
daį¹į¹habbo one should consider
vedaniyo as to be felt
abhisaƱcetayito thought up
abhisaį¹
khato composed of
purÄį¹akammo past action
mano the mind
one should consider ones current state of mind, constructed by and composed of past actions, as something to be felt/experienced.
something like that?
whats troubling you about the translations as given?
So does it means , sadness occurs , you are experiencing the sadness , you felt sad , that is old kamma ? Or you have a tingling sensation in your body , you feel tingling , is that tingling sensation an old kamma ?
my sense is that the mind example is the trickiest one, in the case of the body I think itās more that you halved one, it was conceived by your mother and father years ago and built of porridge from past meals
āJoyā seems like a term referring happiness from new kamma rather than pleasant sensation from āold kammaā. Keep in mind the sutta you are quoting says:
āAnd what, bhikkhus, is old kamma? The eye is old kamma, to be seen as generated and fashioned by volition, as something to be felt. The ear is old kamma ā¦ The mind is old kamma, to be seen as generated and fashioned by volition, as something to be felt. This is called old kamma.
āAnd what, bhikkhus is new kamma? Whatever action one does now by body, speech, or mind. This is called new kamma.
SN 35.146.
SN 35.136 seems to say the sense organs are āold kammaā; that are to be felt; and not clung to with craving & self-view.
New kamma is when you perform action through body speech n mind but joy arises as your experience that you felt , say someone else (their new kamma) is commending on yourself .
So , to be felt is regards as old kamma or new kamma ?
If I make new kamma of eating chocolate, the joy from eating chocolate seems to be from new kamma rather than from old kamma.
The sutta you started this topic about seems very difficult to understand. Most people interpret the āold kammaā to be about ārebirthā from past lives.
If you want to try to interpret this sutta differently, then the sutta is saying āold kammaā (āold habitsā; āold tendenciesā) manifests in the present therefore the old kamma is the present eyes, ears nose, tongue, body & mind which should be felt rather than used to make new kamma with. 
The term āto be feltā mean āto be experiencedā ? But all the experiences itself from moment of birth to death is new kamma ? Only the 6 sense organs are old kamma ?
I already suggested basic dhamma practice to you.
Basic dhamma practice is to experience only feelings so the feelings do not generate craving & attachment.
When you use the word āexperiencingā, this is too broad. I would stick with the translation of āfeelā.
The sutta is obviously saying to feel old kamma and to not generate new kamma. The purpose of the sutta is to end kamma. The sutta says:
And what, bhikkhus, is the way leading to the cessation of kamma? It is this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
āTo be feltā seems to mean to not generate new kamma.
You need to learn the basic Dhamma practise. It seems you donāt yet know what the basic Dhamma practise is. The basic Dhamma practice taught is to only experience feelings (vedana) to prevent craving (tanha) & attachment (upadana) arising.
No , it just mean experiencing .
I mean the term .
Then it means , the old kamma is the 6 sense organs and
(that it can give rise to experience which is to be felt) .
I cannot say what this sutta means. It is not clear enough for me. I already posted :
Bodhi & Sujato translate āear, eyesā¦ body, mindā¦ is old kammaā.
Buddhadasa & Thanissaro translation: āear, eyesā¦ body, mindā¦ should be viewed as old kammaā.
For Bodhi & Sujato, that the sense organs & aggregates are old kamma is literal.
For Buddhadasa & Thanissaro, that the sense organs & aggregates are old kamma seems to be metaphor.
For most people, old kamma is actions performed in the past. SN 35.146 seems to not literally saying this.
I think this better convey it .
