The Meaning of Vedana as a Result of Translation: Feelings vs. Sensations

[ahmad.hazairin]

Background

The translation of the term Vedana from Pali into English has been further translated into other languages ​​such as my national language, namely Indonesian. Nowadays almost all Vedana translations into English are feelings. Very few people translate vedana as sensation, even though I checked several Pali-English dictionaries, it seems that the main translation of the word vedana is sensation, although there are also those who translate it as feeling.

This difference in translation will have consequences for the meaning of vedana which will be carried over to the practice of meditative contemplation of vedana in satipatthana (vedananupassana).

I also checked the translation of Vedana in the German Sutta Pitaka, it seems that the translation also follows the English, namely Vedana is translated as Gefühl. Even though I understand English and German, my national language is Indonesian. In this article, I will try to explain the consequences of translating vedana into feeling in English and followed by the Indonesian translation, namely “perasaan”.

Meaning of Vedana as Feeling vs Sensation

In the Sutta Pitaka, Vedana is explained in various ways. The basic ones are the 5 vedanas: sukha, dukkha, somanassa, domanassa, upekkha.
Sukha = physical comfort;
Dukkha = physical pain;
Somanassa = mental comfort;
Domanassa = mental pain;
Upekkha = physical or mental mediocrity (no pain and no comfort);

If we look at the definition above, we will actually see directly that vedana is an elementary sensation that is felt both physically and mentally: pain, comfort or just normal.

Meanwhile, feelings are a more complex mental condition, such as feelings of sadness or feelings of happiness. When you feel sad, this is actually a complex awareness. Because the feeling of sadness is actually an emotional formation that is formed from various mental components (cetasika/sankhara). So sadness is actually consciousness (citta) in which there is also vedana, namely the sensation of mental discomfort when feelings of sadness strike, but at that time it is not only vedana that appears but also many other mental factors that form the quality of consciousness (citta) in the form of sadness.

So vedana is an elementary sensation such as pain and comfort, not a complex mental feeling consisting of many mental factors (sankhara).

Consequences of Inaccuracy in the Practice of Satipatthana

Using the term feeling as a translation of the word vedana can lead to inaccuracies in the practice of satipatthana. A novice meditator who naively interprets vedana as feeling, then when practicing satipatthana he experiences sad thoughts, for example, he will think he is observing and contemplating vedana, even though in fact he is observing and contemplating citta (cittanupassana). This will of course hinder the emergence of wisdom in understanding the body and mind accurately.

Vedana is also widely misunderstood as the mental factor that recognizes pain and comfort. Even though vedana is pain itself, vedana is comfort itself. Meanwhile, what recognizes vedana (recognizes pain or comfort) is perception (sanna).

[am7]

Do you have a reference to this sutta? I’d like to read that.

@ahmad.hazairin

In the Sutta Pitaka, Vedana is explained in various ways. The basic ones are the 5 vedanas: sukha, dukkha, somanassa, domanassa, upekkha.

In MN59 it is stated that vedanā was explained in various ways as:

• two vedanā: sukhā vedanā, dukkhā vedanā, adukkhamasukhā vedanā
• three vedanā: sukhā vedanā, dukkhā vedanā, adukkhamasukhā vedanā
• another 5, 6, 18, 36 and 108 vedanā

[BethL]

Hi Febi (looking at your profile ),

You present an excellent study.

I know this comes up from time to time on SuttaCentral. Here are a couple of threads that I found useful:

How to translate Vedana

poll I’m currently struggling with this word. I used to use “sensation” but now I see this cannot be right. Vedana seems to be more of a response to sensations, a response that specifically sees a sensation as pleasant, unpleasant or neither pleasant or unpleasant. The issue is that I’m not super happy with any of the other options, what sounds more natural? Feeling has too much emotional baggage in the English language, so I’m not sure I want to default back to that one even if its the most com…

Vedana translated as 'experience'by Ajahn Brahm

I recently heard Ajahn Brahm say that he prefers the word experience to feeling for vedana. Does anyone know his reasoning behind this?

In the second thread listed above, Ven. Pasanna notes:

@Pasanna

In the recordings I have from Ajahn Brahm he explained that experience is a less emotionally charged word. In the experience is just the experience (not the emotion, that comes later).

It’s taken me a while to warm to it, but I find it a useful variation to consider. It certainly makes neither-painful-nor-pleasant vedana clearer in my mind.

However, I would be interested in reviewing all translations (that I can comprehend – only English and French) on SuttaCentral to see a consensus. Or maybe you are doing that.

[am7]

I think I found the sutta SN36.22 which explains all various feelings, for the classification of 5 feelings it states:

Katamā ca, bhikkhave, pañca vedanā?
And what are the five feelings?

Sukhindriyaṁ, dukkhindriyaṁ, somanassindriyaṁ, domanassindriyaṁ, upekkhindriyaṁ— imā vuccanti, bhikkhave, pañca vedanā.
The faculties of pleasure, pain, happiness, sadness, and equanimity -
These are called five feelings.

I wonder why faculties (indriyaṁ) are used in this instance.

[am7]

I think the best kind of translation for obtaining understanding would be with technical terms either untranslated or added in brackets.
Alternatively one can read the Pali version to find what the text refers to.

[Dunlop]

The Pali Suttas define terms therefore the exact translations of specific terms are at times not that important. Vedana is defined as pleasant, unpleasant & neither occurring directly in relation to a sense contact.

‘Sensations’ may be more accurate in relation to physical sense contact however I think ‘sensations’ is too coarse to describe jhana, for example.

[josephzizys]

@ahmad.hazairin

Upekkha = physical or mental mediocrity (no pain and no comfort);

Physical trancendence or physical perfection or neither pleasure nor pain are all better than “mediocrity” Upekkha is never mediocre in buddhism

[josephzizys]

@ahmad.hazairin

Vedana is also widely misunderstood as the mental factor that recognizes pain and comfort. Even though vedana is pain itself, vedana is comfort itself. Meanwhile, what recognizes vedana (recognizes pain or comfort) is perception (sanna).

Great post!

Vedana is “more than a feeling” (insert song here) tho, it can also mean "meditative attainment of a “view” or “vibe”.

I.e a “life is miserable vibe”
Or a “life is good!” vibe.

So its the single tone of “feeling”, like the “feeling” of a movie scene, regardless of if it’s content or nuance it is positive-hopefull-happy etc or its negative-miserable-sad-tragic etc or it’s balanced-calm-detatched-etc.

Anyway, if it where a sensation it could be any number of things, eye things ear things smell things touch things etc, in infintie combinations, sankhara indeed!

I think its a difficult term to adequately translate, especially without a lot of excavatory work on the way in which vedana develops in the ebt.

I think the crucial point is that sanna is what percieves the tone of the scene in the movie, but its a recognition of whats already there.

The vedana.

[josephzizys]

@ahmad.hazairin

Using the term feeling as a translation of the word vedana can lead to inaccuracies in the practice of satipatthana. A novice meditator who naively interprets vedana as feeling, then when practicing satipatthana he experiences sad thoughts, for example, he will think he is observing and contemplating vedana, even though in fact he is observing and contemplating citta (cittanupassana). This will of course hinder the emergence of wisdom in understanding the body and mind accurately.

I am not sure this is right. The novice should anchoring the mind to thier breathing and be learning to distinguish (verbal) thoughts from bodily sensations, and to calm the body and prune the mind actively with positive thinking and dhamma recollection as per the two kinds of thought sermon.

Recognising vedana is literally just regcognising, “i am feeling bad” “i am feeling good” “i am feeling neither”.

While breathing.

And thinking good thoughts.

When thoughts have stilled and a person, having ceased to feel bad, starts to feel good, and then lets themselves feel neither, they are in fourh jhana.

At that time an end can be made to suffering through rightly understanding the experience.

Of so i understand from the ancient scrolls.

[ahmad.hazairin]

@josephzizys
@BethL
@am7
@Dunlop

Thank you for the response…
I would also like to know your opinion on the importance of understanding vedana accurately because it is related to the practice of Satipatthana. When the vedanas are realized, observed, as long as the practice of satipatthana is the physical vedana it seems that this will not be difficult with regard to the accuracy of recognizing the vedanas. But when in practice satipatthana will observe the inner (mental-) vedana, it must be ensured to be able to accurately distinguish which is the inner (mental-) vedana and which is the inner emotional feeling in the form of consciousness (citta) such as feeling sad, feeling angry etc.

[Dunlop]

@ahmad.hazairin

satipatthana is the physical vedana

I read this mostly in MN 10.

It’s when a mendicant who feels a pleasant feeling knows: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling.’

When they feel a painful feeling, they know: ‘I feel a painful feeling.’

When they feel a neutral feeling, they know: ‘I feel a neutral feeling.’

When they feel a pleasant feeling of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling of the flesh.’

When they feel a pleasant feeling not of the flesh, they know: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling not of the flesh.’

MN 10

@ahmad.hazairin

But when in practice satipatthana will observe the inner (mental-) vedana, it must be ensured to be able to accurately distinguish which is the inner (mental-) vedana

I read this mostly in MN 118, where breathing must be calmed/stilled for feelings of rapture & happiness to arise so they can be accurately distinguished.

They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in stilling the physical process.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out stilling the physical process.’

They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in experiencing rapture.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out experiencing rapture.’

They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe in experiencing bliss.’ They practice like this: ‘I’ll breathe out experiencing bliss.’

MN 118

@ahmad.hazairin

the inner emotional feeling in the form of consciousness (citta) such as feeling sad, feeling angry etc.

My reading is sadness & anger are not vedana. They are citta caused by craving & thinking. Vedana is only sensations/feelings of pleasantness, unpleasantness/pain and indifference.

[am7]

MN107

1. ethical conduct → gives rise to avippaṭisāra (read AN10.2)
2. guarding sense droors → keeps out: abhijjhā domanassā
3. moderation in eating
4. committed to wakefulness → sampajāno
5. mindfulness and awareness(satisampajaññena)

SN47.35 sampajāno

And how is a mendicant aware (sampajāno)?
It’s when a mendicant knows(viditā) feelings(vedanā) as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. They know thoughts(vitakkā) as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. They know perceptions(saññā) as they arise, as they remain, and as they go away. That’s how a mendicant is aware.

MN107 states satisampajaññena is to be practiced in all positions at all times.

‘Come, mendicant, have mindfulness and awareness(satisampajaññena). Act with situational awareness when going out and coming back; when looking ahead and aside; when bending and extending the limbs; when bearing the outer robe, bowl and robes; when eating, drinking, chewing, and tasting; when urinating and defecating; when walking, standing, sitting, sleeping, waking, speaking, and keeping silent.’

PS:

@ahmad.hazairin

Meanwhile, what recognizes vedana (recognizes pain or comfort) is perception (sanna).

Sanna recognizes white, yellow, blue eg. colors for eye. Vedana and Vinnana deal with pain, pleasure, neutral, etc. MN140

What remains is sheer vinnana, pure and bright. And what does that vinnana know (vijānāti)? It knows (vijānāti) ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’ and ‘neutral’.