The Realized One Cannot be Found

SN44.2

Such a sutta is not easy to understand, i feel. What does it want to bring across?

That all those buddhist that have faith in Enlightment and the Realized One are totally deluded because such as a Realized One cannot be found? If there is nothing that we can call the Realized One, what all this talk about having faith, refuge, practice, goal is about?

What does it want to bring across? That we are involved in a dream? There is no Realized One?

My impression is that such a sutta as SN44.2 wants to bring across that there is conceptual reality, a world of names, concepts, conceiving, and there is what can be directly known.

Directly known can be shapes/colours, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensation, ideas, emotions, thoughts etc. and Nibbana. Nibbana is not directly known by the senses, i believe, but it is more intuitively known as ones home, the absence of grasping and any ego conceit. It cannot be grasped because it is the absence of grasping.

In that sense Nibbana is also no knowlegde or a particular kind of understanding, i believe. It is more, i feel, like an empty openess. Without any possessions or sense of a possessor. But this openess can never really be grasped by intellect. What is without grasping can only be arrived at by letting go.

Does SN44.2 suggest that the Realized One is a designation for 5 fleeting aggregates without any identity because it constant changes and for this reason cannot be pinpointed? I do not believe so. I believe it points to the impossibility to grasp that what is without grasping. There is a point that one must just accept, i think, one cannot pinpoint and grasp that dimension in ones life that is open and empty. Without conceit and conceiving.

At this moment i tend to this interpretation.

Under suttacentral SN44.2:

In that case, Anurādha, since you don’t actually find a realized one in this very life, is it appropriate to declare:….

Under Access to insight SN44.2:

And so, Anuradha — when you can’t pin down the Tathagata as a truth or reality even in the present life — is it proper for you to declare,……

You see the difference?

Are we saying there are no truths?..… ie, the 4NTs ?

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Puthujana, as a victim of upādanā, is to be found, his state is that of being (bhava) - conceit “I am” supported by self-identification or sakkayadithi. If I am, I am always in spatial world. But since Tathagata unlike puthujana abandoned all self-identification with things extended in space and time, and realised the cessation of conceit “I am”, actually and in the truth he cannot be found even here and now.

From outside what we can see is a certain puggala, Ven Sariputta for example, but such puggala is free from burden of personality (sakkaya). In other words he is an individual without ego, or personality.

I believe that what arahantship is, can only be seen from within. To say: it is an individual without ego, is conceiving arhantship but not arahanship.
But maybe you also point to this. Probably you do.

“You show me a Bitcoin… and I’ll show you the Buddha!”

Something that might be worth thinking about… :grinning: :star_struck: :bouquet: