As I understand it, all things are impermanent because they are dependently originated. One implies the other.
“Why are saṅkhata dhammas impermanent?” was a much debated subject among the Indian Buddhists. There was no uncontested view on the matter. Personally I hold with Moggalliputtatissa that their impermanence is a brute fact that needs no explanation as far as the practical purpose of the Dhamma is concerned.
But for discussion’s sake, let’s suppose that I’m mistaken and that you and the Andhakas (the Buddhist school of Andhra Pradesh) are correct in attributing their impermanence to their dependently originatedness. What then? Does it follow that the Dhammapada will have given an exposition of dependent arising merely by mentioning one of its consequences?
3 Likes
Ven, which chapter of Kv are you referring to here?
The Aniccatākathā.
2 Likes
It says throughout the Dhammapada that all conditioned things are impermanent. How is this not dependent origination?
And throughout Ecclesiastes too.
Was Kohelet a teacher of dependent arising?
Since dependent arising isn’t the only conceivable reason why things might be impermanent, to merely state that all conditioned things are impermanent (as the Dhammapada does) is not tantamount to setting forth a teaching on dependent arising.
2 Likes
It’s quite a fine point, as the two teachings are so closely connected in Buddhism. But we forget that ours is just one way, and an unusual one at that, to see these matters.
In a theistic system, for example, you could say that all things are impermanent: they were created by the will of God and will be destroyed by him, too.
2 Likes
Thank you for the clarification.
Something I notice in reading a text like the Dhammapada is that it’s addressed to monks, rather than laypeople.
It might be unrealistic for most laypeople to attain enlightenment in this lifetime by following the Dhammapada’s teachings by one’s self-effort alone.
This is why the Pure Land path is so popular, because it presents a practical path for laypeople to attain enlightenment in one lifetime, rather than simply hoping for a fortunate worldly rebirth.
The path of self-power and the path of other-power need not contradict each other.
A layperson can seek to live the Eightfold Path, in sincere gratitude for the boundless compassion of Amida Buddha.
I want my thoughts and actions to reflect sincere gratitude to Amida Buddha, rather than passively reciting Amida’s name with no change in my own life.
1 Like
If you will forgive me, though, the above is only true if Pure Land Buddhism “works”.
If Sukhāvatī exists, so to speak.
Otherwise it lays out potentially a path of distraction for lay people. One has to consider all sides.
2 Likes
This concern is addressed in the Tannisho:
I really do not know whether the nembutsu may be the cause for my birth in the Pure Land, or the act that shall condemn me to hell. But I have nothing to regret, even if I should have been deceived by my teacher, and, saying the nembutsu, fall into hell. The reason is that if I were capable of realizing Buddhahood by other religious practices and yet fell into hell for saying the nembutsu, I might have dire regrets for having been deceived. But since I am absolutely incapable of any religious practice, hell is my only home.
https://personal.carthage.edu/jlochtefeld/buddhism/materials/tannisho.html
For Shinran, the Nembutsu was a cry for help from a man who had made every effort to attain enlightenment by his own efforts and failed. It’s not because he could “prove” that the Nembutsu was true.
If one does good things in life and abstains from evil, out of gratitude to Amida Buddha, then one will at least have a positive rebirth in this world if the Nembutsu turns out to be untrue.
Shinran never saw the Nembutsu as a license to do evil:
It is deplorable that you have told people to abandon themselves to their hearts’ desires and to do anything they want. One must seek to cast off the evil of this world and to cease doing wretched deeds; this is what it means to reject the world and to live the nembutsu. When people who may have said the nembutsu for many years abuse others in word or deed, there is no indication of rejecting this world… You, who are totally ignorant of the sutras and commentaries and ignorant of the Tathagata’s words, must never instruct others in this way.
16 - The Collected Works of Shinran
Shinran was clear that those who teach others to use the Nembutsu as a license to do evil are deplorable.
1 Like
And I suppose that’s what’s alluded to a post above, then?
It is good that people can be inspired by Shinran, but I can also see some people seeing the above description and not thinking that this is someone whose teaching they ought to be following. I suppose people are just different, and different things speak to them, and words will be read differently by different people, them all being different.
To me, it’s like a Buddhist version of Pascal’s Wager, from hundreds of years before the birth of Pascal.
In the Pali scriptures, the Buddha also says that if there turns out to be no afterlife, we can at least enjoy the rewards of abstaining from evil in this life.
Besides the Sigalovada Sutta, can you please recommend some other suttas which are also directed to householders? I really appreciate it.
There is in fact a whole thread devoted to this. My own contribution is post #40, consisting of a list of suttas recommended to laypeople by the late Ven. Ñāṇavimala.
5 Likes
That’s really cool. Thank you.
2 Likes
Just as Muslims have the Koran and Christians have the Bible, many seek after one text which summarizes the essence of Buddhism.
For many East Asians throughout history, this text has been the Lotus Sutra. For many in Southeast Asia, this text has been the Dhammapada.
It seems only natural that people would desire one text which authoritatively summarizes the essence of a religion.
I wonder if the Saddharmapuṇḍarīka’s homophobic proscriptions in its Sukhavihāraparivarta could be explained as some of the leaven behind the occasional upflare up Chinese anti-gay sentiment, historically.
Obviously homophobia is a polyvalent and many-faceted societal phenomenon, and many factors go into it, but the prohibitions of association between the bodhisattva & and pañca paṇḍakāḥ would likely add to that leaven of malice, not detract from it. A pity. AFAIK none of the Sinitic recensions of the Dharmapada have homophobic insertions. Nor does the Udānavarga, mostly extant in Chinese AFAIK, for instance.
Incidentally, upon re-reading this thread, up there when I said:
I realize now I was mistaking the Pāli Udāna literature with the Sarvāstivāda Udānavarga. My mistake, originating from me not being sufficiently acquainted with Pāli texts.
I finished reading the Udana and it didn’t seem as interesting or insightful as the Dhammapada. Has anyone read the Udana and felt the same way afterward?
The only thing I don’t particularly like about the Pali suttas is that they are often clunky to read and not particularly well-written.
The Dhammapada, on the other hand, is one of the greatest works of religious literature I have ever read.
I feel like I’ve had a spiritual experience, however subtle, every time I finish reading the Dhammapada.