The Use of Ignoring

[Green]

@Dogen

They usually are, this is why I block & ignore them as to have compassion on myself.

And you never think about what this does with the person you intentionally choose to ignore? On the playground intentionally ignoring a person, like he/she does not exist, is the most worse form of bullying. Even more destructive in nature then calling someone names, i have understood. If something causes trauma to others, problems, suffering, misery it is intentionally ignoring people. This is a very powerful form of abuse.

I can understand that you choose not to engage in endless debates with people who have different ideas about the goal of dhamma then you have. And we have different ideas. Oke, that i understand, but then it is normal to share this with eachother and still show respect for eachother. But just choosing to block and ignore without expressing why, i feel, is really violent, abusive. That is my view on all this.

I felt the need to give some feedback on this.

[Dogen]

Because I realised this would’ve been related to my post, I took a look. And I hope this might be of some use to you perhaps.

First of all, no one is entitled to another person’s time, and this is not a playground. If somebody doesn’t want to expose themselves to your posts, then perhaps you can practice “being comfortable with being uncomfortable” that you preach and learn to be ok with it.

I try to keep an open mind and engage with different perspectives, and get into quite friendly debates here at times.

But if I see certain posters repeatedly derailing threads, resorting to emotional blackmail, name calling, etc. I choose not to engage with them.

Even in this post, I see a lack of personal responsibility and reflection on your part and focusing on someone else’s behaviour and how unjust it is; rather than asking “I wonder why this person does this thing?”.

I’m not wise or patient enough to engage skillfully, so I just don’t. And that’s all I have to say.

We don’t have to engage with each other, and that’s fine. And perhaps it’s bad optics to talk about me blocking publicly, but I’ve noticed several times other people losing their temper in their discussions with you too and so I was hoping it would give others an option & you a time to reflect as well.

I hope you keep well.

Finally @moderators I realise me talking about blocking publicly might be considered abusive, which wasn’t my intent yet. I’m self-snitching now to apologise to all concerned parties and in the future I’ll keep such comments to myself.

[Green]

I do not feel your post is abusive.

Maybe you can have some trust that i take responsibility, also for not derealing threats.

[Ehipassiko]

@Dogen

I’m not wise or patient enough to engage skillfully, so I just don’t.

Moderator note: this is one of the reasons that the silencing function exists. Members are free to engage with or ignore posts and posters as they wish. We encourage members to use the silencing function appropriately, with discernment.

[Invo]

Saying that ignoring someone is a form of bullying is crazy, you should really reconsider your view on that matter. Ignoring someone is exactly the tool to cool down to don’t get into attacking someone who annoys you. No one is entitled to time of another, I agree with Dogen.

I actually think that ignore function is too weak on this forum, because you still see that someone is posting, just not the content of the post. There should be option to completely not see avatar of this user anymore anywhere imho and to not see threads created by them on the thread list. I would be more happy with this function, because I don’t understand why mods don’t ban certain users whose attitute is really decreasing the quality of atmosphere on the board. In the past much better users got bans for less things than nowadays.

And Green I absolutely dont feel like ignoring you, so my feedback here is general.

May all beings be happy and peaceful.

[Spruce]

@Invo

Saying that ignoring someone is a form of bullying is crazy, you should really reconsider your view on that matter.

That actually might not be so crazy as one might rationalize. In certain cases, ignoring someone repeatedly and intentionally might be interpreted as a form of social exclusion, which is a form of bullying (in the past I worked as an early childhood education teacher, and this is how I see the matter in light of that experience). I have also encountered research quotations (though can’t say I’m personally familiar with the actual research) portraying that the experience of being ignored can be experienced as physically painful, and it can also be very anxious for the person experiencing such treatment. In that sense, intentionally ignoring someone can hardly be seen as a skillful practice.

But what is right action related to this issue is perhaps not so straightforward in online discussion forums. People seem to let their guards down and engage in destructive and negative interactions way too easily in these kinds of settings (which does actually resemble the playgrounds of toddlers who have not yet learned to regulate their conduct in social situations). In these settings, not answering someone’s message (which could then perhaps be interpreted as an act of ignoring someone) might actually be intended as the “less harm for everyone” option. I don’t personally see anything wrong with that action when it’ has been intented kindly. But I do hope there would be more discussion of the ethics of such interactions.

I belive it’s good to keep asking oneself: is this kind, is this act being performed with a good intention? I find that the intention behind the action is crucial. But in the end, I guess we are all still practising these things.

[Invo]

Exactly, I think it’s completely different situation in real life than on the Internet. People on the Internet tend to be aggressive and overwhelming much quicker than in real life, and it’s much harder to reason with them and to achieve peaceful solution than in real life. Also there is pretty much “infinite” people on the Internet, so you’re bound to encounter very difficult ones on the way. So bless to the ignore and blocking functions IMHO.

And people who have social issues on the Internet, I think the way to solve them is seeking friends or counsellors in real life, not on the Internet. You won’t fix your emotional stuff on the boards, in many cases spending too much time on the Internet only aggravate the issues.

portraying that the experience of being ignored can be experienced as physically painful

But it’s the person who desires a certain reaction from others who creates the expectation first, which is the source of suffering in many cases. If we follow your logic, I could have a craving that everyone in the world instantly satisfy my every desire, even wicked ones. And I’m being extremely impudent in asking for it. Everyone who ignores me is a bad person, it hurts my feelings! I have physical pain of you not fulfilling my every desire.

I hope you can see what I’m getting at.

Creating an inner sense of victimhood, because others don’t fulfil our every desire is one of the standard methods of manipulation by narcissists. By being an enabler, a person who allows such behaviour long term is creating a possibility for themselves to be in a situation of being an actual victim of narcissist abuse, and they promote these manipulative tendencies in another. By setting healthy boundaries, which must be independent from understanding and actions of another person to work, they protect both themselves and this person actually.

And we cannot compare toddlers to adults. Toddlers are often demanding by nature and it’s love of parents what they need. But adults need to learn how to mitigate their expectations of others. If they can’t do that, sometimes we must disengage from contact, and ignoring them is one of the tools, especially on the Internet, when people can invade your sphere messaging you even in your most private and intimate time.

So no, I don’t think that ignoring someone is always bad.

[LawnMower]

My Grandfather was ignored umpteen times after continuously yelling at the top of his voice that ‘The Titanic’ was going to sink.

Eventually everybody got so fed up with him, management ejected him from the cinema!

[Spruce]

I’m not sure how all this relates to the situation described in the original post of this threat. I guess you are talking about ignoring and blocking generally as a justifiable practice on an online forum?

I would however like to go back to the here and now. The original example I believe was about intentionally ignoring someone while discussing different views on a subject, instead of explicitly refraining from the discussion with words (while still acknowledging that other person), and how this can cause suffering to the one being ignored. From an ethical point of view, it is possible to discern in this example that there’s an intention, there’s an act, and there are consequences. I believe it is possible for us all to learn something from this example, and whether this sequence of events happens in the real world or on the internet should not be seen as totally opposite to each other; one can still practice kindness and thoughtfulness through one’s interactions with others on the internet as well.

Actual online abuse (which I don’t think I’ve witnessed in these discussions) is of course quite a different situation.

(I’d still like to add, that I would much prefer it if these kinds of feedback discussions would not single out any user as a potential wrongdoer. On my own behalf I recognize that I have in the past intentionally ignored answering other’s messages without considering how that might affect the other person. This threat made me see the unskillfulness of my actions in that regard, so hopefully I can act more wisely in the future.)

[Spruce]

@Green

But i also feel that it is not possible to have some harmonieus way of contact in discussing buddhist doctrine/teachings when people have fundamental different ideas. People are intense about this. My experience is that is impossible. At some point in such debates always an element of slander, of negative framing, of accusation, becomes involved. I have experienced it.

We seem to go along when we ignore eachother and be silent but when we start to debate our views of what we think is true Dhamma…the All is aflame. I consider it impossible. Even such things as ‘i respectfully agree to disagree’ are more formalities then expressions of what one really feels.

I just happened to be reading some of Ajahn Chah’s teachings (from the book Food for the Heart), and there’s some good advice from him that might be helpful:

Even if we number in the hundreds or thousands, no matter how many we are, we all travel the same path. We come from different backgrounds, but we are the same. Even though our views may differ, if we practice correctly there will be no friction. Just like all the rivers and streams which flow to the sea… once they enter the sea they all have the same taste and color. It’s the same with people. When they enter the stream of Dhamma, it’s the one Dhamma. Even though they come from different places, they harmonize, they merge. But the thinking which causes all the disputes and conflict is diṭṭhi-māna. Therefore the Buddha taught us to let go of views. Don’t allow māna to cling to those views beyond their relevance.

[Erika_ODonnell]

@Spruce

In that sense, intentionally ignoring someone can hardly be seen as a skillful practice.

I just want to add that being able to block/ignore people is absolutely essential for anyone who is a minority on the internet. There’s extremely few spaces on the internet where you will not face harassment if you’re in any way revealing some form of minority status.

I know this isn’t what you’re talking about here. Social exclusion can be a form of bullying. The context and intention is obviously very important here.

[Snowbird]

Making heavy use of the “mute topic” feature has greatly improved my experience of the forum. I’d say 95% of the time it’s simply topics (or method of discussion) that I have no interest in, thereby saving my time in remembering exactly what the topic/discussion is so I can manually not pay attention. There are usually only about 5 or 6 active topics I care about at any given time.

The other ~5% of the times I mute it’s a topic that if I engaged my chances of being unskillful are very high.

I have also muted some tags, but the community here doesn’t use tagging that much.

I find muting/ignoring people less helpful for the reasons someone stated above. I really need to find a person’s contributions completely unhelpful for it to serve any real purpose.

The practice of ignoring on the forum is just a form of sense restraint. The Buddha encouraged us to curate what gets imputed into our minds.