The Validity of bhikkhunī Ordination by bhikkhus Only, According to the Pāli Vinaya

[dzt]

@anon29387788

Out of respect for the Buddha, please desist from viewing this issue as a “modern” issue. Out of respect for the Buddha, the Compassionate one, view this issue as an issue of Compassion. Out of respect for the Fully Enlightened One, view this issue as one that gives others a greater chance of achieving this Full Enlightenment.

I understand your point, but it is a little bit more complicated than that. Compassion does not mean satisfying every person’s need. Making the barrier to entry lower does mean increasing chances of success.

@anon61506839

You speak of “fitting” as if it was a sin; apparently you are either totally unaware, or choose to turn a blind eye, to the incredible Vinaya fitting that is being continuously done by the great majority of Buddhist monastic communities in the whole world, to make ends meet in what you conceive to be a “modern” context, whereas, to me, it is only the contemporary one!

Fair point, bhante. Could you please describe how exactly this is happening? Are these communities actually changing the (written) Vinaya, or do they just “ignore” certain rules and “add” custom ones?

@anon61506839

You see, those supporting nuns ordination are not “evil” or “prodigal” as you might imagine; they do believe in what they are thinking, feeling and doing, against a lot of trouble on which you are only piling up! I grant you that sometimes they may take offensive positions as well, which is unfortunate too, but aside from this, those who speak of them as followers of some “agenda” that disrespects Buddha, have totally misunderstood and misjudged them.

Actually, bhante, I with my position do not oppose the ordination per se. After all, the pali rule requesting a woman to get permission from both sanghas is questionnable in its genuinity (right?), and there are also nuns lineages which are not broken, even though in different brances of the buddhism. What I was discussing here is that some people say that 8 garudhammas are not needed anymore (even thought they are universal in all schools), and that nuns’ Vinaya is “too hard”.

I also would like to say that here in writing it may seem that I have a hostile position. It is not like this. It just seems that people from different parts of the world tend to have very different ways of thinking, and it may be really hard to understand the other’s point.