Out of respect I’ve addressed to “Bhante”, but help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
I don’t practice nor study in the tradition of Ledi Sayadaw either. But because a friend had sent me a short passage from LS to try to show that “jhanas” is not really necessary. I don’t have time, nor the knowledge or interest to engage in this “endless discussion”. That why i would like to know if there’re any other ways to “bypass” jhanas but still fulfill the Eightfold path? This is only to “make sure” and clear about the “map” for my own practice :relaxed 
Again, thank you all of you for sharing your knowledge .
with metta,
Ven Analayo concludes that until the anagamin stage, for realization of noble levels jhanas aren’t indispensible
if this is true, we have a pretty long way ahead of us before having to start worrying about jhanas
Yeah …I know, but as for any journey a clear map is necessary. Just to be honest i’m still in kinder-garden of meditation practice 
I’m soooooo sorry, this post should be under DV_Van, I was using my spouse account (Vann) by mistake 
That why i would like to know if there’re any other ways to “bypass” jhanas but still fulfill the Eightfold path?
Have a look at Yuganaddha-sutta, AN 4.170 (preferably Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation which is unfortunatley not available on SC).
PS I just want to add that I’m not in any way suggesting that it’s possible to ‘bypass’ jhana and still fulfill the eightfold path (personally I would disagree with that). I just wanted to point out a sutta in which the Buddha teaches that both calm and insight are essential to the path.
Hey Guys,
I’m sorry if I can’t help much with theoretical knowledge but I would like to share my knowledge regarding this.
I’m a BrahmaVihara Practitioner and these are the thing that I’ve been going through.
While I sit in meditation, happiness arises in me. This is the 1st Jhana.
Here my mind become clear without any distraction and body feels light. This is the 2nd Jhana.
Here my body feeling starts to fade away [I Can’t feel my Hand and Legs]. This is the 3rd Jhana.
Here the feeling of loving kindness starts to moves up around my head. This is the 4th Jhana.
With loving kindness in equanimity, my head starts to feel light and the loving kindness starts to change a bit softer which is Compassion/Karuna. here, I went to the Infinite Space which is the 1st Arupa Jhana.
With Compassion , in here I saw bright light keeps on clicking, rise and gone. Here with Infinite consciousness I’m staying in the 2nd Arupa Jhana with the feeling of joy which is Mudita.
WIth equanimity/Uppekha in Nothingness, I stayed in the 3rd Arupa Jhana and lot of boring stuff coming up which is the link of dependent origination.
With the 7 Factors of Enlightenment and full of Equanimity / Uppekha, I stayed in the 4th Arupa Jhana which is Perception non Perception. The link of depended origination pops up really slow in here. There is no desire at all in here
Last thing is with the cessation of perception, feeling and mind. Everything Stops!!!
That was my first experience about cessation, only in a few sec.
The next Experience is quite longer and become longer and longer for the 3rd and the rest as I can start to meditate for more than 5-8 hours.
Hope this works for the answer about Emptiness, Signless and Desireless.
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may i ask whether you can hear sounds while in the 2nd jhana and whether they’re a distraction?
Yes, but dont pay attention to it.
OK 
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Reading MN 148 Chachakka Sutta is Highly Recommended and Please don’t cling to the above statements as it’s going to be perception.
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This is a quite old topic, but I found three kinds of concentration are mentioned and explained in SA 80, although in there the third is nothingness (instead of desirelessness) but the definition is speaking about the abandoning of the sign of lust etc. Even though this has no parallel in Pali canon, this is a clear explanation for this three kinds of concentration.
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:anjal:
Dear LomX,
Wow! With all the letting go you’ve done to get into those states, I’m very surprised you haven’t shaved your hair and entered the saṅgha! No offense intended as what you wrote is really marvellous. Just wondering.
in mettā,
russ
:anjal:
if my parents allow me then it won’t be a problem, but you can’t be ordain without parents approval. My teachers told me not to for now and i still have my responsibility to pay back my parents.
Smile
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Well, if.
Where is the Ven. Analayo concluding that?
i had to intensely refresh my memory and it helped
Analayo “From Grasping to Emptiness - Excursions into the Thought-world of the suttas”, pp. 133-35
Theres also this by Bhikkhu Bodhi: The Jhānas and the Lay Disciples - According to the Pāli Suttas
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For me, the terms ‘emptiness concentration’, ‘conditionless concentration’ & ‘desireless concentration’ are mistranslations that may give the reader the impression there are different types of concentration.
I would translate these terms as: ‘concentration on emptiness’, ‘concentration on conditionless’ & ‘concentration on desireless’.
Therefore, at the highest level of practise, the concentration used to concentrate on these things is jhana. This makes jhana necessary for arahantship.
These three are found in MN 43 as three types of liberation, namely, ākiñcaññā cetovimutti, suññatā cetovimutti & animittā ceto vimutti.
concentration on emptiness, I shall give rise to signlessness (animitta), nothingness,
SA 80
~
…the nothingness mind-release, the emptiness mind-release, the theme-less-mind-release
MN 143
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Thank you all for your help. Much appreciated 
.
Regarding the question if jhana is required for stream enterer or only until the anāgāmi stage …I’ve found an answer from Ajahn Brahmali on the subject "Jhanas and the fruits of the Path", his answer is quite clear and very beneficial for someone at the beginning of the path such as myself.
“However, in my view, it is unnecessary to decide whether jhāna is absolutely required for stream-entry. The practice for becoming a stream-enterer is the eightforld path. If you keep practicing this path, you will eventually become a stream-enterer. If that beakthrough happens before you get to the jhānas (the last factor of the path), then great; but if it doesn’t, you should simply continue practicing the path, including the jhānas, until the breakthrough happens. What is certainly wrong is to deliberately avoid the jhānas because one thinks they are not required. If you do, then there is a very good chance you will block yourself from attaining stream-entry.”
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There are many examples of 1st time hearers of Buddha-Dhamma attaining stream-entry (SN 56.11; MN 56; etc). Obviously, the listeners were not in jhana, particularly Upali in MN 56, who had just concluded a (defeat in) debate with the Buddha. 
I’d mention that, irrespective of the relationship between jhanas and stream entry ( and the fact that newbies to the Buddha’s Dhamma were invested with stream entry…is this some puffing being done by later disciples/redactors of the Suttas?) , the jhanas, it seems to me in theory, are heavily dependent on the quality of the practice with the first 7 Path factors. In other words, if we short sell jhanas in our practice, by implication we might also short sell the commitment to the first 7 factors, and begin to delude ourselves that the Path can be pursued with less than the full vigor and commitment to all of the integrated graduated Path factors that the Eightfold Path defines. Otherwise, Samma Samadhi might have just been the first factor; cultivate it, or maybe bypass it and move on to Right View. But, as we all know, jhanas are the samma culmination of the Path, and, it seems to me, indispensable to a fully integrated and effective practice (toward stream entry).
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