To Buddhists from Buddhist countries: What was it like to grow up in a culture without an overarching God who is always monitoring you?

The Watercooler
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This is a question directed to Buddhists from Buddhist countries.

I grew up in the West and internalized this view where you always feel like there’s a God or someone watching you and will punish you if you disobey.

I wonder what it’s like to have never internalized any of that because Buddhism does not have an ultimate God, it only has devas (which are inside the world, they’re not above the world like in Abrahamic religion), order as an emergent effect from disorder, and probabilistic karma/moral causality. There is also no eternal heaven/hell and no final apocalypse/eschatology. The world exists forever and you just cycle with ups and downs until you decide to reach enlightenment. I imagine that removes feelings of constantly feeling scared and rushed.

For me, growing up under this kind of Abrahamic paradigm lead to never feeling alone even in my thoughts and always feeling judged. It’s about having moral anxiety not only for acts but for mere thoughts as well. God operates like a socially hijacked superego (Freud).

To specify the question a bit more, I want to know how moral thinking operates for you, what your internal psychology is like, and how you deal mentally with hardship? For example, I imagine that if I happened to have been raised in a Buddhist culture and believed I had self-worth, I would probably think “This purified my bad karma so I have to keep going now, I have self-worth and good karma in my reserve so I will pray to activate it now; I will also ask some of the specific devas of money, bureaucracy, and so on to amplify my astrological and life events to get these benefits approved”. I’m not sure if it’d work though, that’s just what I imagine I’d do if I were raised in such cultures. The thing about God in the West is that God is seen as having absolute control so if you feel that God is giving you a “yes”, you feel much calmer because there’s absolute certainty (even if it is perhaps merely illusory).

I hope my question is clear, but feel free to tell any story or anything related to this topic. I want to get inside your mind and understand what it would be like.

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Coming from a Buddhist background, your description of the “Abrahamic paradigm” as a “socially hijacked superego” is fascinating. To many of us, the idea of an all-seeing judge feels like an extra layer of weight on an already heavy world. In Buddhist psychology, the “judge” isn’t an external deity, but the law of Kamma (Action/Result)—which is more like a law of physics than a courtroom sentence.

To help you get “inside our minds,” I want to share a passage from Paul Carus’s Amitabha, A Story of Buddhist Theology, which beautifully captures the moment a seeker (Charaka) transitions from a God-centered view to a Buddhist understanding of the universe.

In this scene, the monk Kevaddha challenges the very “moral anxiety” you mentioned by using a bit of humor to dismantle the idea of a “Universal Father.”

The God Problem

Excerpt from “Amitabha” by Paul Carus

“Ah, I see!” exclaimed Kevaddha. His lip curled with sarcasm and there was a twinkle of triumph in his eye… “You are like the man who sent his servant to market to buy fruit and when the latter returned with bananas, mangoes, grapes, and an assortment of other fruit, he upbraided him, saying: ‘I do not want bananas, nor mangoes, nor grapes, nor pears, nor prunes, nor apples, nor pomegranates, I want fruit! Fruit I want—fruit pure and undefiled, not a particular fruit, but fruit in general!’”
Said Charaka: “Are you a wrangler, famous in the art of dialectics and you know not the difference between God and the gods? I love God but I hate the gods!”
… “Be so good, reverend sir,” answered the novice… “The world in which we live is a world of order, and we know that there are laws to which we must submit. When I speak of God I mean him who made us, the Omnipotent Creator of the Universe, the Father of all Beings, the Standard of all Perfection, the Eternal Law of Life.”
“Well, well,” replied Kevaddha… “I understand now that you are devoted to the great All-God, Brahma… But did you ever consider two things, first that such an All-God conceived as a being that has name and form is the product of our own imagination as much as are all other deities of the people; and secondly, if Brahma were as real as you are and I am, he would be of no avail? Every one must find the path of salvation himself, and Brahma’s wisdom is not your wisdom. Nor can Brahma who resides in the Brahma heaven teach you anything.”
Charaka did not conceal his dissatisfaction… “The mere idea that there is a God gives me strength… how shall I, in my endeavors to seek the truth, succeed if there be no eternal standard of truth?”
“Yes, I know,” replied Kevaddha with undisguised condescension; “It will help a youth who pursues an ideal to think of it as a being, as a god, as the great god, as the greatest god of all. Children need toys and the immature need gods. Your case reminds me of a story which was told me when I in my younger years went out not unlike you in search of truth.”

Next: Kevaddha’s Story

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Good day, hope you’re doing fine!

I’m not from a Buddhist country, although I felt tempted to share my view about the topic…

I was raised Catholic, and, as any child who was born in such environment, I believed that if you misbehave, then the Lord will punish you without taking you to heaven. So that’s what I did: I obeyed so that I could go to Heaven, as my parents kept telling me.
But, as I got older, I started to believe that it was ridiculous to believe that, so I turned agnostic; I didn’t want nothing to do with religion anymore, until I discovered Buddhism last year.
From that day, everything seemed crystal clear for me; I stopped believing that an external cause had power over me, and now I believe in the law of Kamma and Nirvana as the total liberation from pain, disappointment, stress, and so on.

Now on what it feels like to live with a Buddhist mindset in a God-oriented society: in the beginning, I was sick of hearing the same dialogue over and over again; now, even though I do not believe in that anymore, I’m giving compassion and solidarity as much as possible regardless of my views.

Hope this story was interesting to read. May you be at peace wherever you are in your journey.

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Coming from a Buddhist background, your description of the “Abrahamic paradigm” as a “socially hijacked superego” is fascinating. To many of us, the idea of an all-seeing judge feels like an extra layer of weight on an already heavy world. In Buddhist psychology, the “judge” isn’t an external deity, but the law of Kamma (Action/Result)—which is more like a law of physics than a courtroom sentence.

Indeed, I have noticed that people who grew up in Buddhist countries seem to have a… let’s call it “lighter existence”. They feel existentially lighter, more calm, more at peace inwardly. They have a more easygoing attitude to existence. In the Abrahamic paradigm, you have to constantly monitor yourself (or feel monitored) because if you think the wrong things, you feel that you will bring misfortune and eternal torment to yourself.

Thank you for sharing that excerpt from Paul Carus’ work. I have never heard of him prior to you posting it here so this was something new! The biggest issue many people who still live in the Abrahamic (particularly Christian) framework have is that even if they say to themselves that there is no God who is watching you all the time, it doesn’t get rid of the internalized feeling and it’s easy to collapse back into it. You become a hostage to your own mind, afraid of yourself and your own mental space. You feel that if you think about abandoning “God” that you will be punished in this life and the next, so you never muster up the strength to break from the conditioning and the patterns of thought. It just repeats in your head, almost like an addict failing to quit. I have never heard of a Buddhist from a Buddhist country experiencing something like this so I wonder if it’s a uniquely Abrahamic problem.

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Hi magic_mahou…

I understand your question. I also think there must be some difference in being born in the East, but I also think there must be something in common…

When Buddhism arrived in the West, some information about this religion or philosophy became prominent, such as “The Buddha doesn’t talk about God” or that “in Buddhism, prayer has no meaning”…

But studying the Suttas, it’s common for the Buddha to mention Celestial beings that fit well with the ideas of God in many religions, that these beings are in contact with humans, that they can help or hinder these people or punish them, and that we can ask these beings for help as well. This is basically what we learn in many Western religions like Christianity or Catholicism…

That’s why I like to cite this information from the Suttas in some posts like this one that talk about comparisons between Western and Eastern religions.

I understand it might seem boring, but I think it’s important to show what these religions have in common. Most of the time we only focus on the differences, but in reality, religions have a lot in common.

Because we’re talking about Dharma or Dhamma, about reality, then the same reality of the Westerner is the same as that of the Easterner; we are human beings, we are on planet Earth… so we have a lot in common, and our religions must have it too.

I also have other reasons. My family is Catholic, and when I started studying Buddhism, they were somewhat averse, thinking that Buddhism was something completely different from their religions. But as I studied, I saw many things in common: Devas/Angels, the Supreme Deva/God (of this universe), and other things.

So it became clear that the religions had a lot in common and there was no need for all that aversion.

And this happens in many Western families when a member of these families starts studying Buddhism.

Not to mention the wars that exist in the world between religions because they think they are very different and don’t look at what we have in common.

So I’m going to quote some parts of the Suttas that show that religions have a lot in common and that the mentality of a Westerner has… Much in common with the Eastern mentality…

In the first quote, the Buddha speaks of an Overlord. Is there anything else similar to a Supreme God like that?

The Buddha was already conversing with Brahma Baka, who is already a Superior Deva, so the Buddha speaks of other superior beings until he arrives at an Overlord…

It is thus that I, Brahmā, both comprehend your bourn and comprehend your splendour: Baka the Brahma is of great psychic power thus, Baka the Brahma is of great majesty thus, Baka the Brahma is of great fame thus. But there are, Brahmā, three other classes which you do not know, do not see, but which I know and see. There is, Brahmā, the class called Radiant ones from which you have passed away, uprising here; but because of your very long abiding (here), the recollection of it is confused, and because of that you neither know nor see it; I know and see it. Thus I, Brahmā, am not merely on an exact equality with you as regards super-knowledge; how could I be lower, since I am indeed greater than you? There is, Brahmā, the class called Lustrous ones which you neither know nor see, but which I know and see. There is, Brahmā, the class called Vehapphala which you neither know nor see, but which I know and see. Thus again I, Brahmā, am not merely on an exact equality with you as regards super-knowledge; how could I be lower, since I am indeed greater than you?
…
I, Brahmā, knowing the Overlord to be the Overlord, to that extent knowing that which is not reached by means of the Overlord’s Overlordship, do not think: ‘It is the Overlord, (of self) in (regard to) the Overlord, (of self) as the Overlord, the Overlord is mine’. I do not salute the Overlord. Thus again I, Brahmā, am not merely on an exact equality with you as regards super-knowledge; how could I be lower, since I am indeed greater that you?

I, Brahma, knowing the all to be the all, to that extent knowing that which is not reached by the allness of the all, do not think: ‘It is all, (of self) in (regard to) all, (of self) as all, all is mine“. I do not salute the all. Thus again I, Brahmā, am not merely on an exact equality with you as regards super-knowledge; how could I be lower, since I am indeed greater that you?”

SuttaCentral

In the second quote, the Buddha was speaking with Brahma Baka and says what influence this being has, that he can exert his power in many worlds. So we can see the Buddha saying that in this universe there is a celestial being who can show his power in this universe.

‘Brahmā, I too know that if I attach to earth, I will lie close to you, in your domain, subject to your will, and expendable. If I attach to water … fire … air … creatures … gods … the Progenitor … Brahmā, I will lie close to you, in your domain, subject to your will, and expendable. And in addition, Brahmā, I understand your range and your light: The measuring of a Brahmā by their “light” (juti) shows the close connection between divinity and the stars.“That’s how powerful is Baka the Brahmā, how illustrious and mighty.”’

‘But in what way do you understand my range and my light?’

‘A galaxy extends a thousand times as far
as the moon and sun revolve
and the shining ones light up the quarters.
And there you wield your power.

You know the high and low,
the passionate and dispassionate,
and the coming and going of sentient beings
from this realm to another.

That’s how I understand your range and your light.

SuttaCentral

In the third quote we can see a Superior Deva intervening in this world, he asks the Buddha to teach the Dhamma…

This Superior Deva sees the thoughts in the Buddha’s mind and comes to this planet to converse with him…

Could this Superior Deva be seeing our thoughts now?

Considering thus, my mind inclined to inaction rather than to teaching the Dhamma.

“Then, bhikkhus, the Brahmā Sahampati knew with his mind the thought in my mind and he considered: ‘The world will be lost, the world will perish, since the mind of the Tathāgata, accomplished and fully enlightened, inclines to inaction rather than to teaching the Dhamma.’ Then, just as quickly as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm, the Brahmā Sahampati vanished in the Brahma-world and appeared before me. He arranged his upper robe on one shoulder, and extending his hands in reverential salutation towards me, said: ‘Venerable sir, let the Blessed One teach the Dhamma, let the Sublime One teach the Dhamma. There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are wasting through not hearing the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.’ The Brahmā Sahampati spoke thus, and then he said further:

‘In Magadha there have appeared till now
Impure teachings devised by those still stained.
Open the doors to the Deathless! Let them hear
The Dhamma that the Stainless One has found.

Just as one who stands on a mountain peak
Can see below the people all around,
So, O Wise One, All-seeing Sage,
Ascend the palace of the Dhamma.
Let the Sorrowless One survey this human breed,
Engulfed in sorrow, overcome by birth and old age.

Arise, victorious hero, caravan leader,
Debtless one, and wander in the world.
Let the Blessed One teach the Dhamma,
There will be those who will understand.’

“Then I listened to the Brahmā’s pleading, and out of compassion for beings I surveyed the world with the eye of a Buddha.

SuttaCentral

In the fourth quote, it’s from a sutta where the Buddha says that beings are punished for their actions… in the post you say that Easterners aren’t as afraid of being punished, but here in this sutta we see a person being punished… don’t these stories influence the mind of an Easterner in the same way that Western religions influence a Westerner?

The wardens of hell take them by the arms and present them to King Yama, saying, ‘Your Majesty, this person did not pay due respect to their mother and father, ascetics and brahmins, or honor the elders in the family. May Your Majesty punish them!’

SuttaCentral

In the fifth quote, it’s a sutta used to ask for protection from Celestial Beings.

The Āṭānāṭiya Protection

Āṭānāṭiyasutta

DN 32

Mighty spirits hold a congregation, and warn the Buddha that, since not all spirits are friendly, the mendicants should learn verses of protection.

SuttaCentral

Sorry for the long reply, I was just trying to clarify my answer.

:anjal:

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