Turing test for first jhāna

[frankk]

@cjmacie

A key problem with this “Turing test”, and statements such as “low quality first jhana where it’s barely distinguishable from ordinary worldly relaxation and bodily comfort”, is that, as practiced and taught by monastics thoroughly embodying the tradition (where often allowance to even teach is contingent upon at least 2 decades of dedicated practice), there is no question, no fuzziness as to attainment of appanā-samādhi jhāna. It’s a vividly unmistakable mental shift of mode, a fixation that enhances clarity while disabling mental reactivity.

That’s a fair point, and I’m not advocating one should strive for a low quality first jhana.

The main point I am shooting for is when one follows Vism. and THOX (theravada orthodox) model of redefined jhana, it’s qualitatively a different, significantly different than the EBT jhana system.

In this thread I quote from Abhidhamma, KN Peta, with relevant passages.

Foolish cow is doomed: V&V (vitakka&vicāra) in Abhidhamma Vibhanga and KN Petako to Vism

I don’t know which text is earlier, KN Pe, or Ab Vb, but here are the interesting things I noticed. Kn Pe seems to agree 100% with a straightforward of EBT first jhana V&V. What’s interesting is Ab Vb also agrees, but adds a couple of things: appanā byappanā fixation, focussing, But the other items on the Ab Vb list, especially samma sankappo agreees with KN Pe. So here’s what’s really interesting, in Vism., for the meditation topics that can get you into first jhana, AFAIK none of them …

Someone could be ordained for 500 years, practicing 500 years of THOX redefined jhana, but it’s still different from EBT jhana. I’ve taken great pains to do an audited pali and english, often broken down to word by word correspondence the relevant passages, and I encourage people who really want to know, examine the passages yourselves. There is no appana samadhi, no access concentration in EBT jhana. Perhaps one thinks THOX samadhi training system is better. That’s fine. But there should be no delusion that THOX redefined jhana is simply a more detailed explanation of EBT jhana.