SuttaCentral

Valāhakā Devā, who are deities of the weather controlling the clouds


#42

And luckily one doesn’t need faith in the weather gods in order to follow the dhamma!

Unless you aspire to join the weather gods…

or maybe meet some cool devas aren’t mentioned very often in the majority of the Pali canon and see if they really do influence the weather and don’t notice us.


#43

Actually , one would need a little faith in the case of existence of kama loka & jhana , rupa loka & jhana and arupa loka & jhana . If one do accept or believe in kama loka & jhana then obviously one certainly unable to escape the logics behind it that there are at least six type of kama loka with its inhabitants or could you ?


#44

You need faith in the loka and rebirth, not the kinds of beings that inhabit it.

I thought a simple answer. Take Liechtenstein as an example, it’s a tiny country that exist in central Europe. I know Europe exists and there are many countries in Europe, and Liechtenstein is a part of Europe (whether I know it or not) and if I believe Liechtenstein is a country or not doesn’t matter if I want to move to Europe. If I know it exists then I know there are Liechtensteiners, I may not know anything about them except they are there. However if I don’t know they exist then does it really matter if my only goal is to get to Europe? You may be driving from Germany to Switzerland and happen to pass through the country and discover it. Of course if I really want to meet a Liechtensteiner and learn about them and their culture then I should probably know they exist and know where to find Liechtenstein!

It’s the same with the realms that take faith. I can believe in the deva realm and then not be sure if the weather gods are exist or not, but then I may get to the deva realm either through fortunate rebirth or meditation and happen upon them or I can believe they exist and seek them out. I hope I did not oversimplify the idea that you can know a broad area exists and you don’t need faith or knowledge about the specific inhabitants of that area, but that’s my general logic.


#45

Now the thread is diverted from the topic however, I think there is no problem with that because the thread is about something related to faith.

The ending of defilements comes only when the truth is seen. But seeing the truth comes about due to a vital condition. In this way, twelve factors leading to freedom are united with the twelve factors leading to suffering (SN 12.23).

To enter the path you really need the faith; a vital factor to the path.
Some people get into the path believing there are hells where we have to suffer a lot for a limitlessly longer periods.
I think one should rather pay his attention on the suffering which is visible; that he feel right now. He should understand how uneasy his mind is when a kelesa arises. He should understand how hard it is to achieve his desires, how hard it is to deal with anger. He should see present dukkha, to create faith over the path and nibbāna.
Then it really doesn’t matter whether there are hells or other realms or not. One should search an anwer to a problem he know and understands rather than finding answers to imaginary problem of suffering in hell.
The bodhisatta went searching to a problem he saw in his life, not afterlife.

Having said that, it is important to note that a point made above which I think is very important.

If someone wants to see how brahma loka is he has to achieve jhānas, when he is in jhāna he can experience how brahmaloka would be. Similarly when a mind become subtle and subtle he can reach the levels of devas in this particular life, not the sensual pleasures obviously but the state of mind.
To be born in a particular realm he should have a mind with a similar state with the realm when he dies.
This is just my understanding about realms.
There are 31 realms and in this life as a human you have a chance to experience states of minds from devas and brahmas with meditation.
When someone is in moha dosa raga or kodha etc he could feel how evil works and how bad it is to be born in lower a realm. But it would be very hard to imagine the suffering in those realms, you can atleast see Animal realm.


#46

The suttas (or early Buddhist texts) are ‘not’ the words of the Buddha. They are just texts, some early, some later compilations. The Buddha himself also does not allow anyone to use any particular language for his words of teaching; individuals are welcome to use their languages to understand the teachings of the Buddha. It is therefore early Buddhism (or Buddhism as a whole) has developed different textual languages and collections.

The words of the Buddha do not really exist in history. But, one can seek an understanding of early Buddhist teachings by studying the early Buddhist texts comparatively. Note: all early Buddhist texts are sectarian texts.


#47

Note that I already addressed this in post 37 or somewhere. So, I don’t get the point you are trying to make(?).


#48

The suttas are considered as words of the Buddha through which the disciples passed down . The variation and later addition is another matter .


#49

Remember to stick to the O P topic please :slightly_smiling_face:
You can always open another thread to discuss any off-shoot topic. :pray:


#50

What is the meaning of O P here?


#51

Opening Post.

Metta :slightly_smiling_face:


#52

Many thanks! :slightly_smiling_face: