Valāhakā Devā, who are deities of the weather controlling the clouds

This article (pp. 45, 47, note 13) by Choong Mun-keat indicates that only the Chinese version, EA 27.8: T2, 646a-b (= SN 29.1, SN 30.1-2), mentions about the iron-fork tree (tiecha shu 鐵叉樹) is used by garudas (suppanna) in hunting nagas for food. No corresponding Indian term or story is found for the iron-fork tree. Choong MK suggests “It is a question whether this kind of tree originated in China.” (p. 62).

This is an interesting question. Does anyone like to give any comments/suggestions about the tree and story? Is it possible the iron-fork tree refers to Simbali tree (see Malalasekera, p. 755 about Garuda; SuttaCentral)?

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Somewhat late here to reply but ,

The ‘sometimes’ here is very important IMO.
The gods are just one of the factors influencing weather, just like the causes of earthquakes mentioned in Mahaparinibbana sutta. Still, this should be taken with a grain of salt, considering the later interpolations. It’s scenarios like this that the Kalama sutta is helpful : “Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.”
Also,
"If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.’ This is the first assurance he acquires.

“‘But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.’ This is the second assurance he acquires.” - AN 3.65
Whether or not there are gods influencing weather, let’s just keep practicing the path ! :slightly_smiling_face::pray:

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Also, according to the Choong’s article (pp. 46-7, 62), only the Chinese version says that if the naga king serves the Buddha, then garudas are unable to eat nagas. This is because the Tathagata (Buddha) constantly practices the four kinds of mind (i.e. loving-kindness, compassion, empathic joy, and equanimity). So, the naga king protects the Buddha, as being shown also in the form of religious art.

But, why only the Chinese version says that? The idea possibly also is found in other Pali or Buddhist texts? Any suggestions about the myth?

Actually nagas take 3 refuge and 5 precepts thats why garudas are unable to eat them .

Do you know which text/s or sources?

https://suttacentral.net/dn20/en/anandajoti

Nāgas and Supaṇṇas

Then came Nāgas from Nābhasa,
and from Vesālī, and the Tacchakas,
the Kambalas, and Assataras came,
and nāgas from Pāyāga with their kin.

The Yāmunā, and the Dhataraṭṭha nāgas came,
resplendent ones,
and Erāvaṇa, the great nāga,
he also came to the gathering in the wood.

Those who carry away the nāga kings by force
—the divine, twice-born, winged ones, with clear vision
—through the air they came and arrived in the wood,
the Citras and Supaṇṇas, such are their names.

But at that time the nāga kings were without fear,
for the Buddha made them safe from the supaṇṇas.
Calling on one another with gentle words,
the nāgas and supaṇṇas took refuge in the Buddha.

○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○○

Ps .
Some nagas king were protected from harm of supannas 》.

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/lzh/da30

「復有大龍,金翅鳥所不能得。何者 是?娑竭龍王、難陀龍王、跋難陀龍王、伊那婆羅 龍王、提頭賴吒龍王、善見龍王、阿盧龍王、伽 拘羅龍王、伽毗羅龍王、阿波羅龍王、伽 [少/兔] 龍 王、瞿伽 [少/兔] 龍王、阿耨達龍王、善住龍王、優睒 伽波頭龍王、得叉伽龍王,此諸大龍王皆 不為金翅鳥之所搏食,其有諸龍在近 彼住者,亦不為金翅鳥之所搏食。」

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The Chinese text does not have the corresponding Pali text. The story is also not found in Indian myth. Possibly it is originated from China.

Also, it does not mention naga and supanna take refuge and precepts.

The Great Congregation (Mahāsamaya Sutta DN 20)
did mentioned the naga supanna taking refuge . (In Buddha times , taking refuge does include the precepts).

Many Pali texts also didnt have parallel in agama .
If you dont accept all agama as early texts when no parallel is present , just take which you approved of .

The Mahāsamaya Sutta DN 20 states that the Buddha made nagas safe from the supannas/garudas. It does not say because nagas take 3 refuge and 8 precepts, garudas are unable to eat them. It does mention both the nāgas and supaṇṇas took refuge in the Buddha, which, however, the story is not found in the corresponding Chinese DA 19.

The Chinese text DA 30 (no Pali parallel) also does not say why garudas are unable to eat the particular nagas named in the text.

But, the DA 30 Chinese text mentions the tree, 究羅睒摩羅樹 (T1, p. 127b-c), being used by garudas hunting nagas for food. Does anyone know the corresponding Indian term for the tree?

Simbali in Pali and śalmali in Sanskrit.

Salmalia malabarica; silk cotton tree, simal, red cotton tree or kapok.

And the size of the Jambū (Rose-apple) Tree is the same as that of the Citrapāṭaliya Tree of the Asura demons, the Simbali Tree of the Garuḷa demons, the Kadamba Tree in the western continent of Aparagoyana, the Kappa Tree in the northern continent of the Uttarakurus, the Sirīsa Tree in the eastern continent of Pubbavideha, and the Pāricchattaka Tree in the Tāvatiṃsa heaven.

Hence the Ancients said:

The Pāṭali, Simbali, and Jambu, the deities’ Pāricchattaka,
The Kadamba, the Kappa Tree and the Sirīsa as the seventh.
(Path of Purification VII 43)

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Taking refuge and undertake 5 precepts means one accept to abstain from killing . If you need them to have parallel in all cases then just skip .

Do you mean you need “skip”? :roll_eyes: :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

:dragon: :vs: :kangaroo:

:sunglasses:

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Thanks.
How do you know that is the Indian term for the tree?

If you’re asking how I know that 究羅睒摩羅樹 is the Chinese translation of either simbali or śalmali, then the answer is that I don’t know that.

What I do know, mostly from the Jātakas (e.g. the Bhūridatta and Koṭisimbali), is that the simbali is the tree with which garuḷas are especially associated, both in general and in connection with their hunting of nāgas (i.e., the simbali is the tree from which they swoop down upon their prey).

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究罗睒摩罗樹(kura-shamala)
拘吒赊摩利樹(kuzha-semali)

According to Mahabarata , King Yama would used the tree prickles to interrogate the offender .

Ps .
http://cd.xuefo.net/nr/3/34279.html

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The dictionary doesn’t give any sources for the Skt. terms and their contents. No good!
It is unclear why 究罗睒摩罗樹 is kura-shamala, 拘吒赊摩利樹 is kuzha-semali.

Where the Skt. terms come from?

You could try searching for śalmala and śalmali in any of the thirty or so online Sanskrit dictionaries at the University of Cologne:

https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/

Probably best to start with Monier-Williams’ Sanskrit-English Dictionary (1899 edition) and Edgerton’s Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit Dictionary.

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The Skt. Pali terms based on the Jatakas are fine, although they may not be the counterpart of the Chinese term of the tree.

That is broadly the truth of world history, still going strong. That seems to be going on micro scales too so, having no idea what you aim at. Still feeling, yes. That is true.