Of course people can interpret any text in a way that suits their misguided intentions. I’ve noticed that most people tend to only believe things that conform with what they already believe.
To me the simile of the saw does not say “be happy with what’s happening no matter what” but that anger and hate is never a wise response (or a solution) to anything. There are always much better wholesome solutions that work better as well.
And of course if we think about rebirth and the way strong unwholesome acts while dying can influence it, not becoming angry when people are killing you is especially important.
A bit of a sidenote observation…I think the simile of the saw is often misundersfood. If you look at it in context it seems to be more of a mental tool or exercise to use when a person is speaking unpleasant words to you. Its a bit of a paradox I suppose. From personal experience - I’ve been on the receiving end of violence and when I’ve sought help some teachers have invoked the simile of the saw or various teaching on past life reribution. This felt wrong in my heart qnd gut bit not knowing for sure I gabe it the old college try. In ky experience these thoughts - while possibly “true” in an absolute sense - were not timely, helpful or leading out of suffeding. But as a sort of thought tool when someone speaks harsh or up asant words I can find this quite useful, though kt takes a bit of effort to hold the paradox in mind. It seems to me that no anger or hatred even i the race of unspeakable cruelty is indeed the ideal but the path to getting there is indeed a path with much to learn in between. I think another question or angle is - if a person really had had their arm cut off.by bandits and gone to the buddha in great distress, do we really omagine his respo se would be “if you feel any anger you’re no disciple of mine.” Seems silly to me and utterly lackong in compassion. Anyway my two cents on the simile of the saw.
Does the teaching help us in difficult situations? You make a good case that it’s sometimes just too dry and theoretical. From the text’s perspective it seems clear though that it exactly goes beyond reacting to harsh words - how else are we to understand “even if bandits were to sever you savagely…he who gave rise to a mind of hate towards them would not be carrying out my teaching”? - otherwise it would be the ‘simile of the deaf’ or something like that.
Beyond that does it teach to turn the other cheek? or does it blame the victim of violence to be the actual perpetrator? Certainly not. I think the message is simple: in moments when hatred clouds our heart, in these moments we don’t practice the Buddha’s teaching, because hatred is a cloud that makes it difficult for the heart to come to peace. Since it’s about the heart-mind, it doesn’t matter which external situation it is. As always, I cannot see a ‘guilting’ in the teaching, and nobody should make you feel bad on top of being a victim, that ‘you’re a bad buddhist’, more like ‘hatred has consequences’, but also ‘lying oneself into compassion’ has consequences. So being a victim of crime it’s probably not the best time to develop new skills in compassion. But on the other hand with hatred in your heart can you claim ‘With this hatred I am perfectly following the dhamma’?
I guess it’s more like ‘At this moment I can’t help but hate this person. I’m no saint, and hopefully I can learn other more healthy perspectives with time without neglecting myself, but for now that’s what it is’.
Thank you for this. Obviously I have been reflecting on this for a while, and I appreciate your kind words.
I suppose in the end, we can agree to disagree or know that it’s the results of practice that are most important. Still, I feel I would like to say, that upon reflection, I still believe that the context of the simile of the saw is important. Both before and after it’s presentation, the subject matter is right speech and on maintaining an even mind when other’s speak harshly to a person. I do beleive that is important, in knowing and understanding this “medicine” and taking it at the appropriate time.
What you are suggesting makes sense on a theoretical level, but in my experience, for my mind, this sort of rationalizing has never lead to results, only more self blame because someone so kind and generous suggested it and seems to believe in it wholeheartedly, so if it’s not working for me, it must be my fault.
This sort of conundrum is very common for people who have been abused and struggling to develop new mental patterns. After years of listening to others on this and ignoring myself, I did eventually, with no other options, start admitting it just wasn’t working, maybe I wasn’t so wrong and bad after all.
And now I believe that if whatever I’ve been doing has been working, at least better than before.
So, thank you for kindness and and the opportunity for reflection. I can say this passage continues to hold tension and interest for me. But I maintain my stance - the context, and passages that come immediately before and immediately after should have an impact on how we read - and when we quote to others - this passage.
May I just add that the simile of the saw was used in another sutta as an intertextual reference to prescribe calmness in fierce situations. Namely in MN 28 .9:
But this has been said by the Blessed One in his “advice on the simile of the saw”: “Bhikkhus, even if bandits were to sever you savagely limb by limb with a two-handled saw, he who gave rise to a mind of hate towards them would not be carrying out my teaching.” So tireless energy shall be aroused in me and unremitting mindfulness established, my body shall be tranquil and untroubled, my mind concentrated and unified. And now let contact with fists, clods, sticks, and knives assail this body; for this teaching of the Buddhas is being practised (by me).’
Very interestingly this sutta doesn’t call for the practice of metta! It calls for the practice of samadhi (cittaṃ ekaggaṃ = unification of the mind). But of course, if due to bad circumstances we have the habit of self-blame no matter what meditation we practice, it’s good to go back to the fundamental ethical prescription: to reflect whether by thoughts, words or acts I am harming myself or others (and self-blame is obviously self-harm)…
