I noticed a couple of interesting things in this sutta that shed light on vipassana while in the jhanas.
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notice where ditthi falls in the food chain. Comes after perception, but before vitakka (thinking). So when vitakka drops out after first jhana, you would still expect ditthi (view) to be active in the higher jhanas. No surprise though, since if S&S (sati & sampajano) can discern impermanence in the jhanas (AN 4.41 ), it coud certainly discern dukkha as well using “view”.
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notice where vaca (speech) falls in the food chain. From SN 36, we know that vaca drops out in first jhāna. So if you look in this sutta excerpt I quote below, look at all the activities going on between vaca and vitakka.
I haven’t seen a sutta yet that makes me think V&V (vitakka and vicara) in first jhana is the vism. type of samatha kung fu fixity. This sutta is especially telling since it fills in the gap on what happens between vaca dropping out of first jhana, and the continued presence of vitakka.
SN 14.13 giñjak-āvasatha-suttaṃ
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SN 14.13 giñjak-āvasatha-suttaṃ brick-abode-discourse |
SN 14.13 brick-abode-discourse |
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♦ 97. ekaṃ samayaṃ bhagavā |
One time the-blessed-one |
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ñātike viharati giñjak-āvasathe. |
(at) natike (he) dwelled, (in the) brick-abode. |
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tatra kho bhagavā bhikkhū āmantesi — |
there indeed the-blessed-one, (to the) monks (he) addressed - |
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“bhikkhavo”ti. |
“monks!” |
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“bhadante”ti te bhikkhū bhagavato paccassosuṃ. |
“Lord!” those monks, (to) the-blessed-one (they) responded. |
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bhagavā etadavoca — |
The-blessed-one, this-(he)-said - |
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♦ “dhātuṃ, bhikkhave, |
"(An) element, monks, |
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paṭicca uppajjati saññā, |
(through) dependence (on that) arises (a) perception, |
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uppajjati diṭṭhi, |
(there) arises (a) view, |
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uppajjati vitakko”ti. |
(there) arises (a) thought." |
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evaṃ vutte, |
When this was said, |
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āyasmā kaccāno bhagavantaṃ etadavoca — |
Venerable Saddha Kaccāyana, (to) the-Blessed-One (he) said-this: |
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“yāyaṃ, bhante, diṭṭhi — |
“Venerable sir, {these} views - |
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‘a-sammā-sambuddhesu |
(for the) not-perfectly-enlightened |
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sammā-sambuddhā’ti, |
(regarding others as) perfectly-enlightened, |
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ayaṃ nu kho, bhante, diṭṭhi |
how is this, ******, view, |
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kiṃ paṭicca paññāyatī”ti? |
through dependence {on what} (is it) discerned?" |
inferior cause leads to inferior results
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♦ “mahati kho esā, kaccāna, |
"Mighty, Kaccāyana, |
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dhātu yadidaṃ |
is this element, |
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avijjā-dhātu. |
the ignorance-element. |
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hīnaṃ, kaccāna, dhātuṃ |
the inferior, *******, element, |
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paṭicca uppajjati |
(through) dependence (on that) arises |
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hīnā saññā, |
an inferior perception, |
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hīnā diṭṭhi, |
an inferior view, |
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hīno vitakko, |
inferior thought, |
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hīnā cetanā, |
inferior volition, |
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hīnā patthanā, |
inferior longing, |
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hīno paṇidhi, |
an inferior wish, |
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hīno puggalo, |
an inferior person, |
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hīnā vācā; |
inferior speech. |
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hīnaṃ ācikkhati deseti |
Inferior (things he) explains, teaches, |
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paññapeti paṭṭhapeti |
proclaims, establishes, |
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vivarati vibhajati uttānīkaroti; |
discloses, analyses, elucidates. |
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hīnā tassa upapattīti vadāmi. |
Inferior, (will be) his rebirth, (I) say. |