Vitakka vicāra (Jhana-factors)

[chansik_park]

@Sylvester

Why wait? I thought the questions were relevant.

Fair enough

@Gabriel

IMHO it would be helpful to outsource parts of the discussion,

I’d like to eventually get around to rewinding the tape here and incorporating a narrative of sorts into the wiki here.

@chansik_park

I think for the second premise, we could test whether each of the verbs “abhisandeti parisandeti paripūreti parippharati” are ever intransitive without taking a patient. If it’s the case that they’re never intransitive, however, this would necessitate taking “imameva kāyaṃ” as adnominal patient, right?

@Sylvester

I would agree! Perhaps you could labour over the weekend on this?

I also do intend to deliver on the report on “abhisandeti, parisandeti, paripūreti, parippharati” so that we might eliminate the possibility of “imameva kāyaṃ” as adverbial, take kāyaṃ as reflexive but pronominal and anaphorical, and therefore take kāyaṃ as referring back to “kāyo passambhati” and further take “kāyo passambhati” as a process that culminates with the cessation of breath in the fourth jhāna.

However, not to be dismissive of your fine suggestion, I’d like to perhaps put forth a potential dissenting argument in response to @silence’s last one:

@silence

@Sylvester

You may be interested in this phrase “passad­dha­kāya­saṅ­khāro” from AN 10.19.

That is indeed interesting. “passad­dha­kāya­saṅ­khāro” refers to the fourth jhana, which is said (MN 44, SN 41.6) to be where ­kāya­saṅ­khāras understood as breath cease. In that case, it would consolidate the idea that “kāyo passambhati” refers to the body as related to the breath.

[MN 64]

Idhānanda, bhikkhu upadhivivekā akusalānaṃ dhammānaṃ pahānā sabbaso kāyaduṭṭhullānaṃ paṭippassaddhiyā vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṃ savicāraṃ vivekajaṃ pītisukhaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.

So @silence, how would you reconcile the fact that here we have it that first jhāna seems to require the “complete tranquilization of bodily inertia” (sabbaso kāyaduṭṭhullānaṃ paṭippassaddhi)?

How should we understand the three phrases in the three suttas, namely “oḷārikā kāyasaṅkhārā paṭippassambhanti” (DN 18), “passad­dha­kāya­saṅ­khāro” (AN 10.19) and “sabbaso kāyaduṭṭhullānaṃ paṭippassaddhi” (MN 64)?